Why can't I see posting when I set "Group Messages by Conversation"?

There is a thread that I can see (in pieces) when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is not set, but I cannot see it when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is set.

I assume I am doing something wrong. But what is it?

Only one thread? What newsgroup?
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"WhatsUp31415" wrote in message
...
There is a thread that I can see (in pieces) when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is not set, but I cannot see it when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is set.

I assume I am doing something wrong. But what is it?

Make sure View | Current View | "Show all messages" is checked and "Show
replies to my messages" is NOT checked.

WhatsUp31415 wrote:
There is a thread that I can see (in pieces) when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is not set, but I cannot see it when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is set.

I assume I am doing something wrong. But what is it?

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:
Make sure View | Current View | "Show all messages" is checked
and "Show replies to my messages" is NOT checked.

Yes to both. Also, Customize Current View is set to "For all messages, Show
the message".


----- original message -----

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote in message
...
Make sure View | Current View | "Show all messages" is checked and "Show
replies to my messages" is NOT checked.

WhatsUp31415 wrote:
There is a thread that I can see (in pieces) when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is not set, but I cannot see it when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is set.

I assume I am doing something wrong. But what is it?

"Bruce Hagen" wrote:
Only one thread?

No reasonable way for me know. I am not about to make a list of all threads
visible when "Group Messages" is not set, then crossreference them to all
threads visible when "Group Messages" is set (my normal mode).

(But if you can suggest a way that I could automate such a crossreference, I
would be happy to try. I am curious, too, about how many threads I might
not be seeing when "Group Messages" is set.)

I can only know about "interesting" threads. I stumbled across this one
when someone in another thread complained that the OP had posted two
essentially identical inquiries in separate threads. I used Find to locate
the other thread, then I set the flag. But when I returned to the NG
listing with "Group Messages" set, I did not see anything with the flag set.
As an experiment, I unset "Group Messages", and voila!, there was my flagged
posting. Of course, the intent of flagging the posting and setting "Group
Messages" was to find the responses easily.

Fortunately, in this case, they were not difficult to spot even with "Group
Messages" unset. But I am still concerned about the situation.


What newsgroup?

microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions.

The "invisible" thread has the subject "Formula", author Jules, date 7/27/09
5:18 PM, with responses posted at 5:42 PM and 7:05 PM. (All times are PDT.)

The "duplicate" thread has the subject "How to write a formulae" [sic],
author Jules, date 7/27/09 5:38 PM, with responses posted at 5:43 PM and
5:47 PM.

I have no problem seeing the "duplicate" thread with and without "Group
Messages" set.


----- original message -----

"Bruce Hagen" wrote in message
...
Only one thread? What newsgroup?
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"WhatsUp31415" wrote in message
...
There is a thread that I can see (in pieces) when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is not set, but I cannot see it when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is set.

I assume I am doing something wrong. But what is it?

PS....

I wrote:
The "invisible" thread has the subject "Formula", author Jules, date
7/27/09 5:18 PM, with responses posted at 5:42 PM and 7:05 PM. (All times
are PDT.)

In case I was unclear, the entire thread is "invisible" when "Group
Messages" is set -- the two responses as well as the initial posting.

Likewise, the entire thread becomes visible when "Group Messages" is unset.

I could try removing the NG from the account, then re-subscribing to see if
the thread becomes visible when "Group Messages" is set. I could also first
try subscribing to the NG to another account to see if the thread is visible
there when "Group Messages" is set.

But since both actions might change state, I want to wait before trying them
in case you or someone else wants me to look at the current state.


----- original messages -----

"WhatsUp31415" wrote in message
...
"Bruce Hagen" wrote:
Only one thread?

No reasonable way for me know. I am not about to make a list of all
threads visible when "Group Messages" is not set, then crossreference them
to all threads visible when "Group Messages" is set (my normal mode).

(But if you can suggest a way that I could automate such a crossreference,
I would be happy to try. I am curious, too, about how many threads I
might not be seeing when "Group Messages" is set.)

I can only know about "interesting" threads. I stumbled across this one
when someone in another thread complained that the OP had posted two
essentially identical inquiries in separate threads. I used Find to
locate the other thread, then I set the flag. But when I returned to the
NG listing with "Group Messages" set, I did not see anything with the flag
set. As an experiment, I unset "Group Messages", and voila!, there was my
flagged posting. Of course, the intent of flagging the posting and
setting "Group Messages" was to find the responses easily.

Fortunately, in this case, they were not difficult to spot even with
"Group Messages" unset. But I am still concerned about the situation.


What newsgroup?

microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions.

The "invisible" thread has the subject "Formula", author Jules, date
7/27/09 5:18 PM, with responses posted at 5:42 PM and 7:05 PM. (All times
are PDT.)

The "duplicate" thread has the subject "How to write a formulae" [sic],
author Jules, date 7/27/09 5:38 PM, with responses posted at 5:43 PM and
5:47 PM.

I have no problem seeing the "duplicate" thread with and without "Group
Messages" set.


----- original message -----

"Bruce Hagen" wrote in message
...
Only one thread? What newsgroup?
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"WhatsUp31415" wrote in message
...
There is a thread that I can see (in pieces) when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is not set, but I cannot see it when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is set.

I assume I am doing something wrong. But what is it?

While you're posting in an OE-specific newsgroup using OE running in WinXP
SP3, are you actually encountering this behavior in Windows Mail running on
a Vista computer?


WhatsUp31415 wrote:
PS....

I wrote:
The "invisible" thread has the subject "Formula", author Jules, date
7/27/09 5:18 PM, with responses posted at 5:42 PM and 7:05 PM. (All
times
are PDT.)

In case I was unclear, the entire thread is "invisible" when "Group
Messages" is set -- the two responses as well as the initial posting.

Likewise, the entire thread becomes visible when "Group Messages" is
unset.

I could try removing the NG from the account, then re-subscribing to see
if
the thread becomes visible when "Group Messages" is set. I could also
first
try subscribing to the NG to another account to see if the thread is
visible
there when "Group Messages" is set.

But since both actions might change state, I want to wait before trying
them
in case you or someone else wants me to look at the current state.


----- original messages -----

"WhatsUp31415" wrote in message
...
"Bruce Hagen" wrote:
Only one thread?

No reasonable way for me know. I am not about to make a list of all
threads visible when "Group Messages" is not set, then crossreference
them
to all threads visible when "Group Messages" is set (my normal mode).

(But if you can suggest a way that I could automate such a
crossreference,
I would be happy to try. I am curious, too, about how many threads I
might not be seeing when "Group Messages" is set.)

I can only know about "interesting" threads. I stumbled across this one
when someone in another thread complained that the OP had posted two
essentially identical inquiries in separate threads. I used Find to
locate the other thread, then I set the flag. But when I returned to the
NG listing with "Group Messages" set, I did not see anything with the
flag
set. As an experiment, I unset "Group Messages", and voila!, there was my
flagged posting. Of course, the intent of flagging the posting and
setting "Group Messages" was to find the responses easily.

Fortunately, in this case, they were not difficult to spot even with
"Group Messages" unset. But I am still concerned about the situation.


What newsgroup?

microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions.

The "invisible" thread has the subject "Formula", author Jules, date
7/27/09 5:18 PM, with responses posted at 5:42 PM and 7:05 PM. (All
times
are PDT.)

The "duplicate" thread has the subject "How to write a formulae" [sic],
author Jules, date 7/27/09 5:38 PM, with responses posted at 5:43 PM and
5:47 PM.

I have no problem seeing the "duplicate" thread with and without "Group
Messages" set.


----- original message -----

"Bruce Hagen" wrote in message
...
Only one thread? What newsgroup?
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"WhatsUp31415" wrote in message
...
There is a thread that I can see (in pieces) when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is not set, but I cannot see it when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is set.

I assume I am doing something wrong. But what is it?

"WhatsUp31415" wrote in message

There is a thread that I can see (in pieces) when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is not set, but I cannot see it when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is set.

I assume I am doing something wrong. But what is it?

When messages are Grouped by Conversation, then ALL messages in that
conversation are show under only one message Subject. That will be the
earliest message still on the server.
Then, under that, if you click the + to the left, are all the unred
responses to the one showing on top. Since it's a group, all the posts
in the group are represented by only the one earliest one, with the
others rolled up under it.

But if messages are not grouped by conversation, then every message is
shown and there is no grouping of messages by the Subject Line to show
which ones are responses or later then the preceding one. You see every
message available to you all at the same time.

Grouped:

message 1 (shows in pane)
Click the + on the left and the following
message 2
message 3
message 4
and so on will roll down.
4 responds to 3, 3 to 2, 2 to 1, or whomever they decide they wish to
respond to.

Ungrouped:

Message 10
Message 4
Message 1
Message 8
Message 3
Message 6
Message 2
and so on. Here you can't really tell which messages are part of one
thread or stand on their own or what.

That help any?

Unfortunately, setting the flag on a message down inside a group,
doesn't flag earlier posts in that thred, nor anything earlier than the
message flagged by the user; only older message get the flag. I think
it's dumb too, since flagging every message would make the entire group
easier to find. I usually do that by using Edit; Find and looking for
the subject.

HTH,

Twayne`

Unless you flag the original post, you won't see the flag until you expand
the thread with that message in it.

In: Tools | Options | Read you can Automatically Expand Grouped Messages.
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"WhatsUp31415" wrote in message
...
"Bruce Hagen" wrote:
Only one thread?

No reasonable way for me know. I am not about to make a list of all
threads visible when "Group Messages" is not set, then crossreference them
to all threads visible when "Group Messages" is set (my normal mode).

(But if you can suggest a way that I could automate such a crossreference,
I would be happy to try. I am curious, too, about how many threads I
might not be seeing when "Group Messages" is set.)

I can only know about "interesting" threads. I stumbled across this one
when someone in another thread complained that the OP had posted two
essentially identical inquiries in separate threads. I used Find to
locate the other thread, then I set the flag. But when I returned to the
NG listing with "Group Messages" set, I did not see anything with the flag
set. As an experiment, I unset "Group Messages", and voila!, there was my
flagged posting. Of course, the intent of flagging the posting and
setting "Group Messages" was to find the responses easily.

Fortunately, in this case, they were not difficult to spot even with
"Group Messages" unset. But I am still concerned about the situation.


What newsgroup?

microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions.

The "invisible" thread has the subject "Formula", author Jules, date
7/27/09 5:18 PM, with responses posted at 5:42 PM and 7:05 PM. (All times
are PDT.)

The "duplicate" thread has the subject "How to write a formulae" [sic],
author Jules, date 7/27/09 5:38 PM, with responses posted at 5:43 PM and
5:47 PM.

I have no problem seeing the "duplicate" thread with and without "Group
Messages" set.


----- original message -----

"Bruce Hagen" wrote in message
...
Only one thread? What newsgroup?
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"WhatsUp31415" wrote in message
...
There is a thread that I can see (in pieces) when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is not set, but I cannot see it when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is set.

I assume I am doing something wrong. But what is it?

"WhatsUp31415" wrote in message ...
PS....

I wrote:
The "invisible" thread has the subject "Formula", author Jules, date
7/27/09 5:18 PM, with responses posted at 5:42 PM and 7:05 PM. (All times
are PDT.)


Post Message-IDs. That would allow anybody to see the full message
regardless of what newsgroup you are seeing them in.

I see below that you finally did mention a newsgroup name after being asked.
So, does Google Groups have these mystery messages?...

Unclear...

http://groups.google.com/groups/sear...les&safe= off

But such a vague Subject certainly sounds like it could have been in a response
to some other post to be provided as an example for its discussion.



In case I was unclear, the entire thread is "invisible" when "Group
Messages" is set -- the two responses as well as the initial posting.


You haven't said whether you use the Read option:
Automatically expand grouped messages

If you don't use that option and don't understand how it could hide
messages with different Subjects than the ones that you see with
threads contracted, it could explain your symptom.



Likewise, the entire thread becomes visible when "Group Messages" is unset.


As would checking that "expand" option but then you would have to realize
that if the messages that you were interpreting as being parts of a common
thread in fact were threaded under a different Subject that is where you
would find them, regardless of your Sort By setting.



I could try removing the NG from the account, then re-subscribing to see if
the thread becomes visible when "Group Messages" is set. I could also first
try subscribing to the NG to another account to see if the thread is visible
there when "Group Messages" is set.


The only thing that that would possibly change is update your cache to be
more consistent with the server's archive. In particular you could lose
messages by doing that.



But since both actions might change state, I want to wait before trying them
in case you or someone else wants me to look at the current state.


Capture some Message-IDs if you want help with their analysis.
A simple way to do that for several is to select all the messages you want
to consider and then use Forward as attachment. (E.g. press Menu, w)
Provided you use HTML for your E-mail and don't use Base64 for its
encoding that will give you the headers as well as the bodies for all
of the messages that you selected. You have to at least put that
in the Outbox to be able to see the encoded attachments.
So set Work Offline and E-mail it to yourself. Find it in the Outbox
Then you can use Properties, Details, Message Source... Ctrl-a, Ctrl-c
to capture the source of all your selected messages. Paste that into
an open Notepad window. (Alternatively use Forward as attachment again,
from the Find window and drag that attachment to an open Notepad window.)
Then you can extract the Message-ID's (and any other helpful headers
for additional context).

Note that the best clue you may get that way is a Message-ID for a common
original post in their References: headers. In that case build a news: link for that,
open it and see what its Subject is. Alternatively, if Google Groups has archived
that message you could use its Advanced search to find that particular Message-ID.
Doing that could also provide the convenient possibility of finding the rest of the
messages you are interested in, all under their common thread, regardless of Subject
or how old it is; however, I think that occasionally Google Groups doesn't bother
doing that and just groups messages by Subject text. YMMV.


HTH

Robert Aldwinckle
---




----- original messages -----

"WhatsUp31415" wrote in message
...
"Bruce Hagen" wrote:
Only one thread?

No reasonable way for me know. I am not about to make a list of all
threads visible when "Group Messages" is not set, then crossreference them
to all threads visible when "Group Messages" is set (my normal mode).

(But if you can suggest a way that I could automate such a crossreference,
I would be happy to try. I am curious, too, about how many threads I
might not be seeing when "Group Messages" is set.)

I can only know about "interesting" threads. I stumbled across this one
when someone in another thread complained that the OP had posted two
essentially identical inquiries in separate threads. I used Find to
locate the other thread, then I set the flag. But when I returned to the
NG listing with "Group Messages" set, I did not see anything with the flag
set. As an experiment, I unset "Group Messages", and voila!, there was my
flagged posting. Of course, the intent of flagging the posting and
setting "Group Messages" was to find the responses easily.

Fortunately, in this case, they were not difficult to spot even with
"Group Messages" unset. But I am still concerned about the situation.


What newsgroup?

microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions.

The "invisible" thread has the subject "Formula", author Jules, date
7/27/09 5:18 PM, with responses posted at 5:42 PM and 7:05 PM. (All times
are PDT.)

The "duplicate" thread has the subject "How to write a formulae" [sic],
author Jules, date 7/27/09 5:38 PM, with responses posted at 5:43 PM and
5:47 PM.

I have no problem seeing the "duplicate" thread with and without "Group
Messages" set.


----- original message -----

"Bruce Hagen" wrote in message
...
Only one thread? What newsgroup?
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"WhatsUp31415" wrote in message
...
There is a thread that I can see (in pieces) when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is not set, but I cannot see it when "Group Messages by
Conversation" is set.

I assume I am doing something wrong. But what is it?