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Word 2007 Learning Curve



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 29th, 2007, 04:33 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
Terry Farrell[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 231
Default Word 2007 Learning Curve

Gordon

I'm not sure why this should be a support nightmare. If you use roaming
profiles, surely, the customisations stay with the user. So if I log into
any computer on the network, I get My Profile with My Desktop displayed and
in Word I will see all my toolbars as I want to use them. Why is that a
support nightmare?

Terry

"Gordon" wrote in message
...
"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
In previous versions, I always modified the Toolbars. Many of the tools I
never used (such as cut, copy, past, bold, italics underline, etc.) I
always dragged off and added useful tools that were hidden (such as
ParaPageBreakBefore, Doc Properties, File New... and custom macros,
etc.).

I always like that there were always so many different ways to work in
Word that allowed users to customize and work in a way that suited
themselves and their principal tasks. To me, much of this choice seems to
have been removed. I was privileged to be shown demos of the proposed
Ribbon before it went beta and was enthusiastic as I could see that so
many more commands could be made available for users, rather than having
to dig deep to find the hidden nest of tools available. But I wasn't
aware of how rigid the Ribbon was to be until beta testing started. I was
deeply disappointed and I still am. And I will remain disappointed until
the Ribbon is user customizable out-of-the-box.

Terry


I hear what you say, but from a support perspective in a commercial
environment, a User customising ANYTHING on an individual basis turns into
a support/helpdesk nightmare.....


  #22  
Old December 29th, 2007, 05:14 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
Suzanne S. Barnhill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 31,786
Default Word 2007 Learning Curve

Because the help desk person is not looking at the same screen the user is,
so the user is referring to buttons and menu items the IT person may not
even be aware exist, much less have in his UI.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
Gordon

I'm not sure why this should be a support nightmare. If you use roaming
profiles, surely, the customisations stay with the user. So if I log into
any computer on the network, I get My Profile with My Desktop displayed
and in Word I will see all my toolbars as I want to use them. Why is that
a support nightmare?

Terry

"Gordon" wrote in message
...
"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
In previous versions, I always modified the Toolbars. Many of the tools
I never used (such as cut, copy, past, bold, italics underline, etc.) I
always dragged off and added useful tools that were hidden (such as
ParaPageBreakBefore, Doc Properties, File New... and custom macros,
etc.).

I always like that there were always so many different ways to work in
Word that allowed users to customize and work in a way that suited
themselves and their principal tasks. To me, much of this choice seems
to have been removed. I was privileged to be shown demos of the proposed
Ribbon before it went beta and was enthusiastic as I could see that so
many more commands could be made available for users, rather than having
to dig deep to find the hidden nest of tools available. But I wasn't
aware of how rigid the Ribbon was to be until beta testing started. I
was deeply disappointed and I still am. And I will remain disappointed
until the Ribbon is user customizable out-of-the-box.

Terry


I hear what you say, but from a support perspective in a commercial
environment, a User customising ANYTHING on an individual basis turns
into a support/helpdesk nightmare.....




  #23  
Old December 29th, 2007, 11:26 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
Terry Farrell[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 231
Default Word 2007 Learning Curve

I see. So we dumb down Word to help the helpers?

Terry

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
Because the help desk person is not looking at the same screen the user
is, so the user is referring to buttons and menu items the IT person may
not even be aware exist, much less have in his UI.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
Gordon

I'm not sure why this should be a support nightmare. If you use roaming
profiles, surely, the customisations stay with the user. So if I log into
any computer on the network, I get My Profile with My Desktop displayed
and in Word I will see all my toolbars as I want to use them. Why is that
a support nightmare?

Terry

"Gordon" wrote in message
...
"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
In previous versions, I always modified the Toolbars. Many of the tools
I never used (such as cut, copy, past, bold, italics underline, etc.) I
always dragged off and added useful tools that were hidden (such as
ParaPageBreakBefore, Doc Properties, File New... and custom macros,
etc.).

I always like that there were always so many different ways to work in
Word that allowed users to customize and work in a way that suited
themselves and their principal tasks. To me, much of this choice seems
to have been removed. I was privileged to be shown demos of the
proposed Ribbon before it went beta and was enthusiastic as I could see
that so many more commands could be made available for users, rather
than having to dig deep to find the hidden nest of tools available. But
I wasn't aware of how rigid the Ribbon was to be until beta testing
started. I was deeply disappointed and I still am. And I will remain
disappointed until the Ribbon is user customizable out-of-the-box.

Terry

I hear what you say, but from a support perspective in a commercial
environment, a User customising ANYTHING on an individual basis turns
into a support/helpdesk nightmare.....





  #24  
Old December 30th, 2007, 01:20 AM posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
Suzanne S. Barnhill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 31,786
Default Word 2007 Learning Curve

No, but that would be why customization would make it difficult to support.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
I see. So we dumb down Word to help the helpers?

Terry

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
Because the help desk person is not looking at the same screen the user
is, so the user is referring to buttons and menu items the IT person may
not even be aware exist, much less have in his UI.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
Gordon

I'm not sure why this should be a support nightmare. If you use roaming
profiles, surely, the customisations stay with the user. So if I log
into any computer on the network, I get My Profile with My Desktop
displayed and in Word I will see all my toolbars as I want to use them.
Why is that a support nightmare?

Terry

"Gordon" wrote in message
...
"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
In previous versions, I always modified the Toolbars. Many of the
tools I never used (such as cut, copy, past, bold, italics underline,
etc.) I always dragged off and added useful tools that were hidden
(such as ParaPageBreakBefore, Doc Properties, File New... and custom
macros, etc.).

I always like that there were always so many different ways to work in
Word that allowed users to customize and work in a way that suited
themselves and their principal tasks. To me, much of this choice seems
to have been removed. I was privileged to be shown demos of the
proposed Ribbon before it went beta and was enthusiastic as I could
see that so many more commands could be made available for users,
rather than having to dig deep to find the hidden nest of tools
available. But I wasn't aware of how rigid the Ribbon was to be until
beta testing started. I was deeply disappointed and I still am. And I
will remain disappointed until the Ribbon is user customizable
out-of-the-box.

Terry

I hear what you say, but from a support perspective in a commercial
environment, a User customising ANYTHING on an individual basis turns
into a support/helpdesk nightmare.....







  #25  
Old December 30th, 2007, 08:39 AM posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
JMB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,266
Default Word 2007 Learning Curve

Herb and all other responders:

Thanks for all the lively feedback. I'm almost as overwhelmed by it as I
am/was by the new and improved Office 2007 interface. I say "am/was" because
I've been sweating hard in recent days to experiment and get familiar with
the new interface and I think I'm slowly getting used to it. Sint ut sunt aut
non sint - accept them as they are or deny their existence. Denying their
existence is a luxury that Bill Gates et al won't let us afford ...

A few observations:
- Customizing toolbars etc. has never worked well for me. Partly a personal
thing, and partly because it tends to make interactions with company provided
user support even more complicated than they already are.
- Everything in Office 2007 is very visual now - almost exclusively. That
may work well for most people but not for all. Like me for instance. I just
liked the option in previous versions to use text-based pull-down menus
without having to glance all over the screen to find some cute little darn
icon until my eyes start to hurt.
- Some new features I really like, e.g. the long overdue citation insertion
and bibliography creation will come in very handy.
- Pity they still they did not fix some of the chart issues (funky aspect
ratio issues). Guess that will never be addressed.

Thanks again!

--
JMB


"Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote:

When I agreed to write a book about Word 2007, I faced exactly the same
problem you're facing. But, because Word 2007 was the object rather than the
means, I had no choice in the matter. At the outset, I was using Word 2003
to write the book, but at some point, critical productivity mass was
achieved, and I found that new Word 2007 features made me more productive,
and so I wrote the last half of the book using Word 2007.

I don't know if there are "classic" interface tools for Excel, but there are
several for Word 2007:

http://www.addintools.com/english/menuword/

http://pschmid.net/blog/2007/04/20/111

I believe that the second option is free. So, for Word, at least, you have
at least three choices:

1. Bite the bullet and learn Word 2007, knowing that Word 14 will surely
build on Word 2007/12 rather than on Word 2003/11; this is the best option
if you need to keep up with future versions of Word. If it's hard to get
used to the new interface now in Word 12, it will only be more difficult
several years from now with Word 14.

2. Use a classic interface tool, relying on it when you're in a hurry, but
otherwise dabbling and gradually learning the ribbon approach. This is a
good option if Word 2007 has features that you need, but you don't need to
learn Word 2007 in a hurry. There are other learning aids you can use, as
well, such as the interactive guide that shows you where to find Word 2007
commands and features:
http://office.microsoft.com/assistan...HA100744321033.

3. Revert to Word 2003. This is a good option if Word 2003 provides
everything you need and if you won't need to work with documents that rely
upon Word 2007-specific features that aren't preserved when using the Office
2007 Compatibility Pack.

A 4th option--not incompatible with #1 and #2--is to set up Word 2007's
Quick Access Toolbar so that it contains your most-used tools from Word 2003
(do the same for Excel 2007). This is the approach I use for my everyday
work, and it has alleviated a lot of Word 2007's ergonomic inefficiencies.
One approach to this is shown he

http://word2007bible.herbtyson.com/2...more-familiar/


--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
Author of the Word 2007 Bible
Blog: http://word2007bible.herbtyson.com
Web: http://www.herbtyson.com
"JMB" wrote in message
...
I'll make an honest attempt to give this question/feedback a positive
twist.
I have been using Word/Excel etc. for years now and consider myself
somewhat
of an expert user. Now I have a new computer with Vista and Office 2007.
And
I essentially find myself facing this predicament of going up an
enormously
steep learning curve, i.e. relearning how to wordprocess and spreadsheet
almost from scratch all over again. The new and improved of Office 2007
apps
may look much more "politically correct" than in previous versions, but so
far my experience has been that it can hardly get any less user friendly
and
more convoluted than this. I'm giving it a very serious try here, but I'm
also beginning to think about throwing in the towel. Anybody out there
that
can offer any useful advice as to how I can actually start using the
Office
2007 applications without letting all my previous experience and know-how
completely go to waste?
--
JMB



  #26  
Old December 30th, 2007, 10:19 AM posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
Paul Gauci
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default Word 2007 Learning Curve

OK - but how about the needs of companies (large and small) who use
customised styles/templates/toolbars/icons etc to standardise the
presentations of letters, reports, etc?

For instance, when such companies work with outsiders (say, when they
outsource), all they had to do with 2003 was to provide their sub-contractors
with their customised templates/toolbars/icons etc and save considerable time
and energy on post writing-up formatting.

Also, freelancers who work/ed for different companies using their clients'
customised templates/toolbars/icons can/could be very efficient when 2003
customisations are/were well designed. It appears to me that they will have
problems being as efficient with 2007.

--
Paul Gauci


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

No, but that would be why customization would make it difficult to support.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
I see. So we dumb down Word to help the helpers?

Terry

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
Because the help desk person is not looking at the same screen the user
is, so the user is referring to buttons and menu items the IT person may
not even be aware exist, much less have in his UI.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
Gordon

I'm not sure why this should be a support nightmare. If you use roaming
profiles, surely, the customisations stay with the user. So if I log
into any computer on the network, I get My Profile with My Desktop
displayed and in Word I will see all my toolbars as I want to use them.
Why is that a support nightmare?

Terry

"Gordon" wrote in message
...
"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
In previous versions, I always modified the Toolbars. Many of the
tools I never used (such as cut, copy, past, bold, italics underline,
etc.) I always dragged off and added useful tools that were hidden
(such as ParaPageBreakBefore, Doc Properties, File New... and custom
macros, etc.).

I always like that there were always so many different ways to work in
Word that allowed users to customize and work in a way that suited
themselves and their principal tasks. To me, much of this choice seems
to have been removed. I was privileged to be shown demos of the
proposed Ribbon before it went beta and was enthusiastic as I could
see that so many more commands could be made available for users,
rather than having to dig deep to find the hidden nest of tools
available. But I wasn't aware of how rigid the Ribbon was to be until
beta testing started. I was deeply disappointed and I still am. And I
will remain disappointed until the Ribbon is user customizable
out-of-the-box.

Terry

I hear what you say, but from a support perspective in a commercial
environment, a User customising ANYTHING on an individual basis turns
into a support/helpdesk nightmare.....








  #27  
Old December 30th, 2007, 01:19 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
Terry Farrell[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 231
Default Word 2007 Learning Curve

Paul

I agree: the current implementation makes it harder for all and I cannot see
what the long-term advantages are to anyone that the Ribbons are locked down
so tightly.

What I would like to see is the ordinary user being able to create their own
'Home' Ribbon that can be tied in with a template. On this ribbon, the user
can add whatever groups they want from any of the other standard ribbons and
remove/change the contents of these groups.

For example, my Home ribbon would remove the Clipboard group (a real waste
of screen space), remove much of the Font and Paragraph group tools (but
adding a few more useful tools) and thus making loads more space for styles.

Terry

"Paul Gauci" wrote in message
...
OK - but how about the needs of companies (large and small) who use
customised styles/templates/toolbars/icons etc to standardise the
presentations of letters, reports, etc?

For instance, when such companies work with outsiders (say, when they
outsource), all they had to do with 2003 was to provide their
sub-contractors
with their customised templates/toolbars/icons etc and save considerable
time
and energy on post writing-up formatting.

Also, freelancers who work/ed for different companies using their clients'
customised templates/toolbars/icons can/could be very efficient when 2003
customisations are/were well designed. It appears to me that they will
have
problems being as efficient with 2007.

--
Paul Gauci


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

No, but that would be why customization would make it difficult to
support.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
I see. So we dumb down Word to help the helpers?

Terry

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
Because the help desk person is not looking at the same screen the
user
is, so the user is referring to buttons and menu items the IT person
may
not even be aware exist, much less have in his UI.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
Gordon

I'm not sure why this should be a support nightmare. If you use
roaming
profiles, surely, the customisations stay with the user. So if I log
into any computer on the network, I get My Profile with My Desktop
displayed and in Word I will see all my toolbars as I want to use
them.
Why is that a support nightmare?

Terry

"Gordon" wrote in message
...
"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
In previous versions, I always modified the Toolbars. Many of the
tools I never used (such as cut, copy, past, bold, italics
underline,
etc.) I always dragged off and added useful tools that were hidden
(such as ParaPageBreakBefore, Doc Properties, File New... and
custom
macros, etc.).

I always like that there were always so many different ways to work
in
Word that allowed users to customize and work in a way that suited
themselves and their principal tasks. To me, much of this choice
seems
to have been removed. I was privileged to be shown demos of the
proposed Ribbon before it went beta and was enthusiastic as I could
see that so many more commands could be made available for users,
rather than having to dig deep to find the hidden nest of tools
available. But I wasn't aware of how rigid the Ribbon was to be
until
beta testing started. I was deeply disappointed and I still am.
And I
will remain disappointed until the Ribbon is user customizable
out-of-the-box.

Terry

I hear what you say, but from a support perspective in a commercial
environment, a User customising ANYTHING on an individual basis
turns
into a support/helpdesk nightmare.....









  #28  
Old December 30th, 2007, 06:23 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
Suzanne S. Barnhill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 31,786
Default Word 2007 Learning Curve

While I agree that a customizable ribbon or tab would be helpful, it has
been pointed out that you can create a specialize QAT for a specific
template. Don't think, however, that I am in any way defending the loss of
customizability. I haven't yet "upgraded" to Office 2007, but I'm going to
be one of the loudest whiners when I do, as I have highly customized my Word
2003 UI (with some customizations probably dating back to Word 2.0).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
Paul

I agree: the current implementation makes it harder for all and I cannot
see what the long-term advantages are to anyone that the Ribbons are
locked down so tightly.

What I would like to see is the ordinary user being able to create their
own 'Home' Ribbon that can be tied in with a template. On this ribbon, the
user can add whatever groups they want from any of the other standard
ribbons and remove/change the contents of these groups.

For example, my Home ribbon would remove the Clipboard group (a real waste
of screen space), remove much of the Font and Paragraph group tools (but
adding a few more useful tools) and thus making loads more space for
styles.

Terry

"Paul Gauci" wrote in message
...
OK - but how about the needs of companies (large and small) who use
customised styles/templates/toolbars/icons etc to standardise the
presentations of letters, reports, etc?

For instance, when such companies work with outsiders (say, when they
outsource), all they had to do with 2003 was to provide their
sub-contractors
with their customised templates/toolbars/icons etc and save considerable
time
and energy on post writing-up formatting.

Also, freelancers who work/ed for different companies using their
clients'
customised templates/toolbars/icons can/could be very efficient when 2003
customisations are/were well designed. It appears to me that they will
have
problems being as efficient with 2007.

--
Paul Gauci


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

No, but that would be why customization would make it difficult to
support.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
I see. So we dumb down Word to help the helpers?

Terry

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
Because the help desk person is not looking at the same screen the
user
is, so the user is referring to buttons and menu items the IT person
may
not even be aware exist, much less have in his UI.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
Gordon

I'm not sure why this should be a support nightmare. If you use
roaming
profiles, surely, the customisations stay with the user. So if I log
into any computer on the network, I get My Profile with My Desktop
displayed and in Word I will see all my toolbars as I want to use
them.
Why is that a support nightmare?

Terry

"Gordon" wrote in message
...
"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
In previous versions, I always modified the Toolbars. Many of the
tools I never used (such as cut, copy, past, bold, italics
underline,
etc.) I always dragged off and added useful tools that were hidden
(such as ParaPageBreakBefore, Doc Properties, File New... and
custom
macros, etc.).

I always like that there were always so many different ways to
work in
Word that allowed users to customize and work in a way that suited
themselves and their principal tasks. To me, much of this choice
seems
to have been removed. I was privileged to be shown demos of the
proposed Ribbon before it went beta and was enthusiastic as I
could
see that so many more commands could be made available for users,
rather than having to dig deep to find the hidden nest of tools
available. But I wasn't aware of how rigid the Ribbon was to be
until
beta testing started. I was deeply disappointed and I still am.
And I
will remain disappointed until the Ribbon is user customizable
out-of-the-box.

Terry

I hear what you say, but from a support perspective in a commercial
environment, a User customising ANYTHING on an individual basis
turns
into a support/helpdesk nightmare.....











  #29  
Old December 30th, 2007, 07:44 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
Jay Freedman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,488
Default Word 2007 Learning Curve

Just a couple more observations in the mix:

The "Ribbons are locked down" statement needs qualification. The
built-in Ribbon groups aren't customizable, but it _is_ possible to
remove any/all built-in groups and replace them with customized groups
that might be either slight modifications of the built-ins or
completely different. To do this, though, you need to get somewhat
familiar with RibbonX, which is what Patrick Schmid tries to do at
http://www.pschmid.net/office2007/ribbonx.

Yes, this is harder than customizing Word 2003 and earlier, and thus
not end-user-friendly. I suspect that's intentional, at the request of
the aforementioned large companies. They can afford to have someone
learn RibbonX, create customized templates for their needs, and have
everyone in the company forced to use the same customizations
(including IT support).

Eventually someone will come up with an end-user tool that makes
Ribbon changes easier. Patrick's RibbonCustomizer is close, but still
not as easy as many would like. Probably it will have to wait until MS
fixes some of the bugs and limitations in RibbonX itself.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:23:50 -0600, "Suzanne S. Barnhill"
wrote:

While I agree that a customizable ribbon or tab would be helpful, it has
been pointed out that you can create a specialize QAT for a specific
template. Don't think, however, that I am in any way defending the loss of
customizability. I haven't yet "upgraded" to Office 2007, but I'm going to
be one of the loudest whiners when I do, as I have highly customized my Word
2003 UI (with some customizations probably dating back to Word 2.0).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
Paul

I agree: the current implementation makes it harder for all and I cannot
see what the long-term advantages are to anyone that the Ribbons are
locked down so tightly.

What I would like to see is the ordinary user being able to create their
own 'Home' Ribbon that can be tied in with a template. On this ribbon, the
user can add whatever groups they want from any of the other standard
ribbons and remove/change the contents of these groups.

For example, my Home ribbon would remove the Clipboard group (a real waste
of screen space), remove much of the Font and Paragraph group tools (but
adding a few more useful tools) and thus making loads more space for
styles.

Terry

"Paul Gauci" wrote in message
...
OK - but how about the needs of companies (large and small) who use
customised styles/templates/toolbars/icons etc to standardise the
presentations of letters, reports, etc?

For instance, when such companies work with outsiders (say, when they
outsource), all they had to do with 2003 was to provide their
sub-contractors
with their customised templates/toolbars/icons etc and save considerable
time
and energy on post writing-up formatting.

Also, freelancers who work/ed for different companies using their
clients'
customised templates/toolbars/icons can/could be very efficient when 2003
customisations are/were well designed. It appears to me that they will
have
problems being as efficient with 2007.

--
Paul Gauci


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

No, but that would be why customization would make it difficult to
support.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
I see. So we dumb down Word to help the helpers?

Terry

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
Because the help desk person is not looking at the same screen the
user
is, so the user is referring to buttons and menu items the IT person
may
not even be aware exist, much less have in his UI.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
Gordon

I'm not sure why this should be a support nightmare. If you use
roaming
profiles, surely, the customisations stay with the user. So if I log
into any computer on the network, I get My Profile with My Desktop
displayed and in Word I will see all my toolbars as I want to use
them.
Why is that a support nightmare?

Terry

"Gordon" wrote in message
...
"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
In previous versions, I always modified the Toolbars. Many of the
tools I never used (such as cut, copy, past, bold, italics
underline,
etc.) I always dragged off and added useful tools that were hidden
(such as ParaPageBreakBefore, Doc Properties, File New... and
custom
macros, etc.).

I always like that there were always so many different ways to
work in
Word that allowed users to customize and work in a way that suited
themselves and their principal tasks. To me, much of this choice
seems
to have been removed. I was privileged to be shown demos of the
proposed Ribbon before it went beta and was enthusiastic as I
could
see that so many more commands could be made available for users,
rather than having to dig deep to find the hidden nest of tools
available. But I wasn't aware of how rigid the Ribbon was to be
until
beta testing started. I was deeply disappointed and I still am.
And I
will remain disappointed until the Ribbon is user customizable
out-of-the-box.

Terry

I hear what you say, but from a support perspective in a commercial
environment, a User customising ANYTHING on an individual basis
turns
into a support/helpdesk nightmare.....











--
Regards,
Jay Freedman
Microsoft Word MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit.
  #30  
Old December 30th, 2007, 08:37 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
Suzanne S. Barnhill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 31,786
Default Word 2007 Learning Curve

I suspect that if toolbar/menu customization had been possible only through
VBA in the past, we'd hear a lot less moaning about the need to learn
RibbonX for Word 2007 customization.

The real problem is that MS depended too much on SQM data that suggested
users never customized the UI, overlooking the fact that (a) UI
customization, if captured at all by CEIP (and they weren't very confident
about that), would be captured only once, and that existing customizations
(created before Word 2002/2003) would not be represented at all. This led
the developers to believe that "users never customize the UI," which may
still be true for the majority (especially the large portion whose UI is
locked down by IT), but they overlooked a large and vocal minority who do
customize.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Jay Freedman" wrote in message
news
Just a couple more observations in the mix:

The "Ribbons are locked down" statement needs qualification. The
built-in Ribbon groups aren't customizable, but it _is_ possible to
remove any/all built-in groups and replace them with customized groups
that might be either slight modifications of the built-ins or
completely different. To do this, though, you need to get somewhat
familiar with RibbonX, which is what Patrick Schmid tries to do at
http://www.pschmid.net/office2007/ribbonx.

Yes, this is harder than customizing Word 2003 and earlier, and thus
not end-user-friendly. I suspect that's intentional, at the request of
the aforementioned large companies. They can afford to have someone
learn RibbonX, create customized templates for their needs, and have
everyone in the company forced to use the same customizations
(including IT support).

Eventually someone will come up with an end-user tool that makes
Ribbon changes easier. Patrick's RibbonCustomizer is close, but still
not as easy as many would like. Probably it will have to wait until MS
fixes some of the bugs and limitations in RibbonX itself.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:23:50 -0600, "Suzanne S. Barnhill"
wrote:

While I agree that a customizable ribbon or tab would be helpful, it has
been pointed out that you can create a specialize QAT for a specific
template. Don't think, however, that I am in any way defending the loss of
customizability. I haven't yet "upgraded" to Office 2007, but I'm going to
be one of the loudest whiners when I do, as I have highly customized my
Word
2003 UI (with some customizations probably dating back to Word 2.0).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
Paul

I agree: the current implementation makes it harder for all and I cannot
see what the long-term advantages are to anyone that the Ribbons are
locked down so tightly.

What I would like to see is the ordinary user being able to create their
own 'Home' Ribbon that can be tied in with a template. On this ribbon,
the
user can add whatever groups they want from any of the other standard
ribbons and remove/change the contents of these groups.

For example, my Home ribbon would remove the Clipboard group (a real
waste
of screen space), remove much of the Font and Paragraph group tools (but
adding a few more useful tools) and thus making loads more space for
styles.

Terry

"Paul Gauci" wrote in message
...
OK - but how about the needs of companies (large and small) who use
customised styles/templates/toolbars/icons etc to standardise the
presentations of letters, reports, etc?

For instance, when such companies work with outsiders (say, when they
outsource), all they had to do with 2003 was to provide their
sub-contractors
with their customised templates/toolbars/icons etc and save
considerable
time
and energy on post writing-up formatting.

Also, freelancers who work/ed for different companies using their
clients'
customised templates/toolbars/icons can/could be very efficient when
2003
customisations are/were well designed. It appears to me that they will
have
problems being as efficient with 2007.

--
Paul Gauci


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

No, but that would be why customization would make it difficult to
support.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
I see. So we dumb down Word to help the helpers?

Terry

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
Because the help desk person is not looking at the same screen the
user
is, so the user is referring to buttons and menu items the IT
person
may
not even be aware exist, much less have in his UI.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
Gordon

I'm not sure why this should be a support nightmare. If you use
roaming
profiles, surely, the customisations stay with the user. So if I
log
into any computer on the network, I get My Profile with My Desktop
displayed and in Word I will see all my toolbars as I want to use
them.
Why is that a support nightmare?

Terry

"Gordon" wrote in message
...
"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
In previous versions, I always modified the Toolbars. Many of
the
tools I never used (such as cut, copy, past, bold, italics
underline,
etc.) I always dragged off and added useful tools that were
hidden
(such as ParaPageBreakBefore, Doc Properties, File New... and
custom
macros, etc.).

I always like that there were always so many different ways to
work in
Word that allowed users to customize and work in a way that
suited
themselves and their principal tasks. To me, much of this choice
seems
to have been removed. I was privileged to be shown demos of the
proposed Ribbon before it went beta and was enthusiastic as I
could
see that so many more commands could be made available for
users,
rather than having to dig deep to find the hidden nest of tools
available. But I wasn't aware of how rigid the Ribbon was to be
until
beta testing started. I was deeply disappointed and I still am.
And I
will remain disappointed until the Ribbon is user customizable
out-of-the-box.

Terry

I hear what you say, but from a support perspective in a
commercial
environment, a User customising ANYTHING on an individual basis
turns
into a support/helpdesk nightmare.....











--
Regards,
Jay Freedman
Microsoft Word MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup
so all may benefit.



 




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