Access user-friendliness needs to improve

Access is part of the suite of products supplied to all workers in my federal
government offices - many thousands of workers. Conceptually it is a great
product but rarely used due to its complex nature. IT support rarely has
specialized knowledge of software packages and focuses mainly on the larger
technical issues like connectivity problems and networking etc. As such,
administrative staff are left to solve their own problems with
software...which competes with heavy workloads. The result is that MS-Access
is not used very often because you have to have a lot of experience and
training for it to be useful and maintainable. Many offices have a high
turnover of staff. A database is only useful if it is maintainable. Barely
anyone knows how to use it.

As an office manager I am creating databases for my office but am keeping
them as simple as possible because I know that, if I don't, when I move on
there will be no one in the office who can maintain them and they will be
dropped. If I add complexities to the databases I am in essence 'wasting my
time'.

This tool of efficiency has so much potential but is not being used because
no one has the knowledge or training to use it.

MS should continue developing this wonderful administrative tool with an eye
to making it easier for the beginner to produce reports more easily.
Administrative staff become familiar with Word because they have no choice.
It is not the same story with Access...because it is optional. It would be
nice to see a twinning of the features in Word with those in Access so the
transition would be seamless, quick, and easy for those who are comfortable
with Word.

An example is the line between columns. Through this community I received a
response to my question on this topic. I am greatful but surprised that a
simple line could require such in depth knowledge and VBA programming.. This
is ridiculous. In Word you are asked if you want a line between columns and
then click YES.

People don't make the transition because the transition is too hard to make
and they have too much work to do.
--
Sunrise

Agree that Access is not as simple as Word to use. I don't think there is
such a thing as a database product that is that simple. By nature, databases
are complex. My advice to Access users is to include as much documentation
as possible within the product to ensure the next person has a chance to
understand it.
There is a need for a database product. If there were not, Access would
long ago have died on the vine. Unfortunately, you have to spend time to
learn it. Distributing it to all users and expecting them to know how to use
it without training will never succeed.

Neville Turbit
www.projectperfect.com.au

"Sunrise" wrote:

Access is part of the suite of products supplied to all workers in my federal
government offices - many thousands of workers. Conceptually it is a great
product but rarely used due to its complex nature. IT support rarely has
specialized knowledge of software packages and focuses mainly on the larger
technical issues like connectivity problems and networking etc. As such,
administrative staff are left to solve their own problems with
software...which competes with heavy workloads. The result is that MS-Access
is not used very often because you have to have a lot of experience and
training for it to be useful and maintainable. Many offices have a high
turnover of staff. A database is only useful if it is maintainable. Barely
anyone knows how to use it.

As an office manager I am creating databases for my office but am keeping
them as simple as possible because I know that, if I don't, when I move on
there will be no one in the office who can maintain them and they will be
dropped. If I add complexities to the databases I am in essence 'wasting my
time'.

This tool of efficiency has so much potential but is not being used because
no one has the knowledge or training to use it.

MS should continue developing this wonderful administrative tool with an eye
to making it easier for the beginner to produce reports more easily.
Administrative staff become familiar with Word because they have no choice.
It is not the same story with Access...because it is optional. It would be
nice to see a twinning of the features in Word with those in Access so the
transition would be seamless, quick, and easy for those who are comfortable
with Word.

An example is the line between columns. Through this community I received a
response to my question on this topic. I am greatful but surprised that a
simple line could require such in depth knowledge and VBA programming.. This
is ridiculous. In Word you are asked if you want a line between columns and
then click YES.

People don't make the transition because the transition is too hard to make
and they have too much work to do.
--
Sunrise

On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 00:01:01 -0700, NevilleT
wrote:


Agree that Access is not as simple as Word to use. I don't think there is
such a thing as a database product that is that simple. By nature, databases
are complex. My advice to Access users is to include as much documentation
as possible within the product to ensure the next person has a chance to
understand it.
There is a need for a database product. If there were not, Access would
long ago have died on the vine. Unfortunately, you have to spend time to
learn it. Distributing it to all users and expecting them to know how to use
it without training will never succeed.

Neville Turbit
www.projectperfect.com.au

"Sunrise" wrote:

Access is part of the suite of products supplied to all workers in my federal
government offices - many thousands of workers. Conceptually it is a great
product but rarely used due to its complex nature. IT support rarely has
specialized knowledge of software packages and focuses mainly on the larger
technical issues like connectivity problems and networking etc. As such,
administrative staff are left to solve their own problems with
software...which competes with heavy workloads. The result is that MS-Access
is not used very often because you have to have a lot of experience and
training for it to be useful and maintainable. Many offices have a high
turnover of staff. A database is only useful if it is maintainable. Barely
anyone knows how to use it.

As an office manager I am creating databases for my office but am keeping
them as simple as possible because I know that, if I don't, when I move on
there will be no one in the office who can maintain them and they will be
dropped. If I add complexities to the databases I am in essence 'wasting my
time'.

This tool of efficiency has so much potential but is not being used because
no one has the knowledge or training to use it.

MS should continue developing this wonderful administrative tool with an eye
to making it easier for the beginner to produce reports more easily.
Administrative staff become familiar with Word because they have no choice.
It is not the same story with Access...because it is optional. It would be
nice to see a twinning of the features in Word with those in Access so the
transition would be seamless, quick, and easy for those who are comfortable
with Word.

An example is the line between columns. Through this community I received a
response to my question on this topic. I am greatful but surprised that a
simple line could require such in depth knowledge and VBA programming.. This
is ridiculous. In Word you are asked if you want a line between columns and
then click YES.

People don't make the transition because the transition is too hard to make
and they have too much work to do.
--
Sunrise
Word is an application. Access is not an application. It is a programming
language like C++, or Fortran, or VB6.
--
Chuck

"Sunrise" wrote in message
...


That gets my vote for "most pointless posting of the year" award.

Clearly you don't understand what Access is. It is *not* an application
like Excel or Word, it is a toolkit to enable a *developer* to build an
application. The fact that MS have tried to make it appealing to the masses
is irrelevant. In fact my job would be a whole lot easier if the masses
left it well alone.

Actually, Microsoft has spent a lot of effort to make Access available to the
masses. We professional developers some times think perhaps too much.

Anybody can paint a wall, but only Michaelangelo could do the Cistene
Chapel. For keeping track of some simplistic data, it doesn't take much to
make Access useful. And it does not take knowledge of VBA to do so. There
are some fairly complex databases around that have no VBA at all, but it is
useful for manipulating more complex data and for creating user interfaces
that prevent incorrect data from being entered. I have seen some good apps
using only Macros.

As has already been stated, Access is not as much an application as a
development tool, but it can be used effectively without a lot of training.
You do need to understand some basic Database Normalization methods and
rules, but you also have to know some basic arithmetic to use Excel and be to
some degree literate to use Word.

Now, in parting, and with good will, if you are one of those agencies who
wants to collect some of my money or impose more regulations on my life, I
hope you never get it right; otherwise, I encourage you to keep at it. These
newsgroups are about the best place to learn.
--
Dave Hargis, Microsoft Access MVP


"Sunrise" wrote:

Access is part of the suite of products supplied to all workers in my federal
government offices - many thousands of workers. Conceptually it is a great
product but rarely used due to its complex nature. IT support rarely has
specialized knowledge of software packages and focuses mainly on the larger
technical issues like connectivity problems and networking etc. As such,
administrative staff are left to solve their own problems with
software...which competes with heavy workloads. The result is that MS-Access
is not used very often because you have to have a lot of experience and
training for it to be useful and maintainable. Many offices have a high
turnover of staff. A database is only useful if it is maintainable. Barely
anyone knows how to use it.

As an office manager I am creating databases for my office but am keeping
them as simple as possible because I know that, if I don't, when I move on
there will be no one in the office who can maintain them and they will be
dropped. If I add complexities to the databases I am in essence 'wasting my
time'.

This tool of efficiency has so much potential but is not being used because
no one has the knowledge or training to use it.

MS should continue developing this wonderful administrative tool with an eye
to making it easier for the beginner to produce reports more easily.
Administrative staff become familiar with Word because they have no choice.
It is not the same story with Access...because it is optional. It would be
nice to see a twinning of the features in Word with those in Access so the
transition would be seamless, quick, and easy for those who are comfortable
with Word.

An example is the line between columns. Through this community I received a
response to my question on this topic. I am greatful but surprised that a
simple line could require such in depth knowledge and VBA programming.. This
is ridiculous. In Word you are asked if you want a line between columns and
then click YES.

People don't make the transition because the transition is too hard to make
and they have too much work to do.
--
Sunrise

Thank you Chuck. That hadn't occurred to me before.
--
Sunrise


"Chuck" wrote:

On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 00:01:01 -0700, NevilleT
wrote:


Agree that Access is not as simple as Word to use. I don't think there is
such a thing as a database product that is that simple. By nature, databases
are complex. My advice to Access users is to include as much documentation
as possible within the product to ensure the next person has a chance to
understand it.
There is a need for a database product. If there were not, Access would
long ago have died on the vine. Unfortunately, you have to spend time to
learn it. Distributing it to all users and expecting them to know how to use
it without training will never succeed.

Neville Turbit
www.projectperfect.com.au

"Sunrise" wrote:

Access is part of the suite of products supplied to all workers in my federal
government offices - many thousands of workers. Conceptually it is a great
product but rarely used due to its complex nature. IT support rarely has
specialized knowledge of software packages and focuses mainly on the larger
technical issues like connectivity problems and networking etc. As such,
administrative staff are left to solve their own problems with
software...which competes with heavy workloads. The result is that MS-Access
is not used very often because you have to have a lot of experience and
training for it to be useful and maintainable. Many offices have a high
turnover of staff. A database is only useful if it is maintainable. Barely
anyone knows how to use it.

As an office manager I am creating databases for my office but am keeping
them as simple as possible because I know that, if I don't, when I move on
there will be no one in the office who can maintain them and they will be
dropped. If I add complexities to the databases I am in essence 'wasting my
time'.

This tool of efficiency has so much potential but is not being used because
no one has the knowledge or training to use it.

MS should continue developing this wonderful administrative tool with an eye
to making it easier for the beginner to produce reports more easily.
Administrative staff become familiar with Word because they have no choice.
It is not the same story with Access...because it is optional. It would be
nice to see a twinning of the features in Word with those in Access so the
transition would be seamless, quick, and easy for those who are comfortable
with Word.

An example is the line between columns. Through this community I received a
response to my question on this topic. I am greatful but surprised that a
simple line could require such in depth knowledge and VBA programming.. This
is ridiculous. In Word you are asked if you want a line between columns and
then click YES.

People don't make the transition because the transition is too hard to make
and they have too much work to do.
--
Sunrise
Word is an application. Access is not an application. It is a programming
language like C++, or Fortran, or VB6.
--
Chuck

Thank you Neville. I appreciate your comments.
--
Sunrise


"NevilleT" wrote:

Agree that Access is not as simple as Word to use. I don't think there is
such a thing as a database product that is that simple. By nature, databases
are complex. My advice to Access users is to include as much documentation
as possible within the product to ensure the next person has a chance to
understand it.
There is a need for a database product. If there were not, Access would
long ago have died on the vine. Unfortunately, you have to spend time to
learn it. Distributing it to all users and expecting them to know how to use
it without training will never succeed.

Neville Turbit
www.projectperfect.com.au

"Sunrise" wrote:

Access is part of the suite of products supplied to all workers in my federal
government offices - many thousands of workers. Conceptually it is a great
product but rarely used due to its complex nature. IT support rarely has
specialized knowledge of software packages and focuses mainly on the larger
technical issues like connectivity problems and networking etc. As such,
administrative staff are left to solve their own problems with
software...which competes with heavy workloads. The result is that MS-Access
is not used very often because you have to have a lot of experience and
training for it to be useful and maintainable. Many offices have a high
turnover of staff. A database is only useful if it is maintainable. Barely
anyone knows how to use it.

As an office manager I am creating databases for my office but am keeping
them as simple as possible because I know that, if I don't, when I move on
there will be no one in the office who can maintain them and they will be
dropped. If I add complexities to the databases I am in essence 'wasting my
time'.

This tool of efficiency has so much potential but is not being used because
no one has the knowledge or training to use it.

MS should continue developing this wonderful administrative tool with an eye
to making it easier for the beginner to produce reports more easily.
Administrative staff become familiar with Word because they have no choice.
It is not the same story with Access...because it is optional. It would be
nice to see a twinning of the features in Word with those in Access so the
transition would be seamless, quick, and easy for those who are comfortable
with Word.

An example is the line between columns. Through this community I received a
response to my question on this topic. I am greatful but surprised that a
simple line could require such in depth knowledge and VBA programming.. This
is ridiculous. In Word you are asked if you want a line between columns and
then click YES.

People don't make the transition because the transition is too hard to make
and they have too much work to do.
--
Sunrise

Thanks for your reply Keith. I've learned some new things from reading the
responses to my posting. This has been helpful for me. Isn't that the
point? To learn and discuss?
--
Sunrise


"Keith Wilby" wrote:

"Sunrise" wrote in message
...


That gets my vote for "most pointless posting of the year" award.

Clearly you don't understand what Access is. It is *not* an application
like Excel or Word, it is a toolkit to enable a *developer* to build an
application. The fact that MS have tried to make it appealing to the masses
is irrelevant. In fact my job would be a whole lot easier if the masses
left it well alone.

Thank you Klatuu. I am nothing more than an office manager with an interest
in efficiency. My intent was to provide a comment that might be helpful -
nothing more.

I appreciate your comments and have learned from them. I agree that these
newsgroups are a great place to learn, and I will continue to visit.

Regards,
Sunrise


"Klatuu" wrote:

Actually, Microsoft has spent a lot of effort to make Access available to the
masses. We professional developers some times think perhaps too much.

Anybody can paint a wall, but only Michaelangelo could do the Cistene
Chapel. For keeping track of some simplistic data, it doesn't take much to
make Access useful. And it does not take knowledge of VBA to do so. There
are some fairly complex databases around that have no VBA at all, but it is
useful for manipulating more complex data and for creating user interfaces
that prevent incorrect data from being entered. I have seen some good apps
using only Macros.

As has already been stated, Access is not as much an application as a
development tool, but it can be used effectively without a lot of training.
You do need to understand some basic Database Normalization methods and
rules, but you also have to know some basic arithmetic to use Excel and be to
some degree literate to use Word.

Now, in parting, and with good will, if you are one of those agencies who
wants to collect some of my money or impose more regulations on my life, I
hope you never get it right; otherwise, I encourage you to keep at it. These
newsgroups are about the best place to learn.
--
Dave Hargis, Microsoft Access MVP


"Sunrise" wrote:

Access is part of the suite of products supplied to all workers in my federal
government offices - many thousands of workers. Conceptually it is a great
product but rarely used due to its complex nature. IT support rarely has
specialized knowledge of software packages and focuses mainly on the larger
technical issues like connectivity problems and networking etc. As such,
administrative staff are left to solve their own problems with
software...which competes with heavy workloads. The result is that MS-Access
is not used very often because you have to have a lot of experience and
training for it to be useful and maintainable. Many offices have a high
turnover of staff. A database is only useful if it is maintainable. Barely
anyone knows how to use it.

As an office manager I am creating databases for my office but am keeping
them as simple as possible because I know that, if I don't, when I move on
there will be no one in the office who can maintain them and they will be
dropped. If I add complexities to the databases I am in essence 'wasting my
time'.

This tool of efficiency has so much potential but is not being used because
no one has the knowledge or training to use it.

MS should continue developing this wonderful administrative tool with an eye
to making it easier for the beginner to produce reports more easily.
Administrative staff become familiar with Word because they have no choice.
It is not the same story with Access...because it is optional. It would be
nice to see a twinning of the features in Word with those in Access so the
transition would be seamless, quick, and easy for those who are comfortable
with Word.

An example is the line between columns. Through this community I received a
response to my question on this topic. I am greatful but surprised that a
simple line could require such in depth knowledge and VBA programming.. This
is ridiculous. In Word you are asked if you want a line between columns and
then click YES.

People don't make the transition because the transition is too hard to make
and they have too much work to do.
--
Sunrise

As an administrative professional and someone who has a keen eye for
improving efficiency in offices I am very excited to promote the use of
Access within my office and department. I realize now that it is more
intended for developers than for secretaries. But, we need it.

In my view, databases can play an enormous role in reducing workload and
improving our reporting function. The need to 'report' and 'measure' our
productivity and effectiveness has been growing like a disease in our
government (this is a documented fact). Everyone is complaining and
struggling to find a way to cope. With the economy in decline there is no
hope of creating jobs within our structure for Access developers.

I have started voluntary 'lunch and learn' sessions for my staff where we
share our software knowledge - tips and techniques etc. I also pair up
employees who 'know' with employees who 'want/need to learn'. This works out
great - we teach each other. So, through our software sharing we will
endeavour to keep the Access knowledge/skill alive within our office.

Thanks for listening.
--
Sunrise


"Klatuu" wrote:

Actually, Microsoft has spent a lot of effort to make Access available to the
masses. We professional developers some times think perhaps too much.

Anybody can paint a wall, but only Michaelangelo could do the Cistene
Chapel. For keeping track of some simplistic data, it doesn't take much to
make Access useful. And it does not take knowledge of VBA to do so. There
are some fairly complex databases around that have no VBA at all, but it is
useful for manipulating more complex data and for creating user interfaces
that prevent incorrect data from being entered. I have seen some good apps
using only Macros.

As has already been stated, Access is not as much an application as a
development tool, but it can be used effectively without a lot of training.
You do need to understand some basic Database Normalization methods and
rules, but you also have to know some basic arithmetic to use Excel and be to
some degree literate to use Word.

Now, in parting, and with good will, if you are one of those agencies who
wants to collect some of my money or impose more regulations on my life, I
hope you never get it right; otherwise, I encourage you to keep at it. These
newsgroups are about the best place to learn.
--
Dave Hargis, Microsoft Access MVP


"Sunrise" wrote:

Access is part of the suite of products supplied to all workers in my federal
government offices - many thousands of workers. Conceptually it is a great
product but rarely used due to its complex nature. IT support rarely has
specialized knowledge of software packages and focuses mainly on the larger
technical issues like connectivity problems and networking etc. As such,
administrative staff are left to solve their own problems with
software...which competes with heavy workloads. The result is that MS-Access
is not used very often because you have to have a lot of experience and
training for it to be useful and maintainable. Many offices have a high
turnover of staff. A database is only useful if it is maintainable. Barely
anyone knows how to use it.

As an office manager I am creating databases for my office but am keeping
them as simple as possible because I know that, if I don't, when I move on
there will be no one in the office who can maintain them and they will be
dropped. If I add complexities to the databases I am in essence 'wasting my
time'.

This tool of efficiency has so much potential but is not being used because
no one has the knowledge or training to use it.

MS should continue developing this wonderful administrative tool with an eye
to making it easier for the beginner to produce reports more easily.
Administrative staff become familiar with Word because they have no choice.
It is not the same story with Access...because it is optional. It would be
nice to see a twinning of the features in Word with those in Access so the
transition would be seamless, quick, and easy for those who are comfortable
with Word.

An example is the line between columns. Through this community I received a
response to my question on this topic. I am greatful but surprised that a
simple line could require such in depth knowledge and VBA programming.. This
is ridiculous. In Word you are asked if you want a line between columns and
then click YES.

People don't make the transition because the transition is too hard to make
and they have too much work to do.
--
Sunrise