Access user-friendliness needs to improve

Good post, Sunrise.

I certainly intended no offense. I do applaud what you are doing. I might
offer a suggestion. There are consultants who could provide some training
during your lunch sessions. It may be out of budget for you, but another
thing I would offer to help with would be to get it done for free.

If you can tell me where you are located, I will try to find an Access MVP
close to you and see if I can coerse him/her into some free introductory
basics to help you get started.

Also, in addition to these newsgroups, there are several MVPs who have sites
with lots of useful information. One that has more content that most is
http://www.allenbrowne.com

Hope to hear from you soon.
--
Dave Hargis, Microsoft Access MVP


"Sunrise" wrote:

As an administrative professional and someone who has a keen eye for
improving efficiency in offices I am very excited to promote the use of
Access within my office and department. I realize now that it is more
intended for developers than for secretaries. But, we need it.

In my view, databases can play an enormous role in reducing workload and
improving our reporting function. The need to 'report' and 'measure' our
productivity and effectiveness has been growing like a disease in our
government (this is a documented fact). Everyone is complaining and
struggling to find a way to cope. With the economy in decline there is no
hope of creating jobs within our structure for Access developers.

I have started voluntary 'lunch and learn' sessions for my staff where we
share our software knowledge - tips and techniques etc. I also pair up
employees who 'know' with employees who 'want/need to learn'. This works out
great - we teach each other. So, through our software sharing we will
endeavour to keep the Access knowledge/skill alive within our office.

Thanks for listening.
--
Sunrise


"Klatuu" wrote:

Actually, Microsoft has spent a lot of effort to make Access available to the
masses. We professional developers some times think perhaps too much.

Anybody can paint a wall, but only Michaelangelo could do the Cistene
Chapel. For keeping track of some simplistic data, it doesn't take much to
make Access useful. And it does not take knowledge of VBA to do so. There
are some fairly complex databases around that have no VBA at all, but it is
useful for manipulating more complex data and for creating user interfaces
that prevent incorrect data from being entered. I have seen some good apps
using only Macros.

As has already been stated, Access is not as much an application as a
development tool, but it can be used effectively without a lot of training.
You do need to understand some basic Database Normalization methods and
rules, but you also have to know some basic arithmetic to use Excel and be to
some degree literate to use Word.

Now, in parting, and with good will, if you are one of those agencies who
wants to collect some of my money or impose more regulations on my life, I
hope you never get it right; otherwise, I encourage you to keep at it. These
newsgroups are about the best place to learn.
--
Dave Hargis, Microsoft Access MVP


"Sunrise" wrote:

Access is part of the suite of products supplied to all workers in my federal
government offices - many thousands of workers. Conceptually it is a great
product but rarely used due to its complex nature. IT support rarely has
specialized knowledge of software packages and focuses mainly on the larger
technical issues like connectivity problems and networking etc. As such,
administrative staff are left to solve their own problems with
software...which competes with heavy workloads. The result is that MS-Access
is not used very often because you have to have a lot of experience and
training for it to be useful and maintainable. Many offices have a high
turnover of staff. A database is only useful if it is maintainable. Barely
anyone knows how to use it.

As an office manager I am creating databases for my office but am keeping
them as simple as possible because I know that, if I don't, when I move on
there will be no one in the office who can maintain them and they will be
dropped. If I add complexities to the databases I am in essence 'wasting my
time'.

This tool of efficiency has so much potential but is not being used because
no one has the knowledge or training to use it.

MS should continue developing this wonderful administrative tool with an eye
to making it easier for the beginner to produce reports more easily.
Administrative staff become familiar with Word because they have no choice.
It is not the same story with Access...because it is optional. It would be
nice to see a twinning of the features in Word with those in Access so the
transition would be seamless, quick, and easy for those who are comfortable
with Word.

An example is the line between columns. Through this community I received a
response to my question on this topic. I am greatful but surprised that a
simple line could require such in depth knowledge and VBA programming.. This
is ridiculous. In Word you are asked if you want a line between columns and
then click YES.

People don't make the transition because the transition is too hard to make
and they have too much work to do.
--
Sunrise

Sunrise wrote:
As an administrative professional and someone who has a keen eye for
improving efficiency in offices I am very excited to promote the use of
Access within my office and department. I realize now that it is more
intended for developers than for secretaries. But, we need it.

In my view, databases can play an enormous role in reducing workload and
improving our reporting function. The need to 'report' and 'measure' our
productivity and effectiveness has been growing like a disease in our
government (this is a documented fact). Everyone is complaining and
struggling to find a way to cope. With the economy in decline there is no
hope of creating jobs within our structure for Access developers.

I have started voluntary 'lunch and learn' sessions for my staff where we
share our software knowledge - tips and techniques etc. I also pair up
employees who 'know' with employees who 'want/need to learn'. This works out
great - we teach each other. So, through our software sharing we will
endeavour to keep the Access knowledge/skill alive within our office.


As long as your folks are interested, I think lunch-learning
discussions are an outstanding idea.

To toss my two cents into your pot, I suggest that your
group carfully study and discuss the concepts and ideas in
Crystal's Access Basics article at:
http://www.accessmvp.com/strive4peace/

Crystal is a professional technical trainer so she has an
easily inderstood way of explaining the kind of stuff that
relative beginners need to know.

--
Marsh
MVP [MS Access]

Sunrise wrote:
As an administrative professional and someone who has a keen eye for
improving efficiency in offices I am very excited to promote the use of
Access within my office and department. I realize now that it is more
intended for developers than for secretaries. But, we need it.

In my view, databases can play an enormous role in reducing workload and
improving our reporting function. The need to 'report' and 'measure' our
productivity and effectiveness has been growing like a disease in our
government (this is a documented fact). Everyone is complaining and
struggling to find a way to cope. With the economy in decline there is no
hope of creating jobs within our structure for Access developers.

I have started voluntary 'lunch and learn' sessions for my staff where we
share our software knowledge - tips and techniques etc. I also pair up
employees who 'know' with employees who 'want/need to learn'. This works out
great - we teach each other. So, through our software sharing we will
endeavour to keep the Access knowledge/skill alive within our office.


As long as your folks are interested, I think lunch-learning
discussions are an outstanding idea.

To toss my two cents into your pot, I suggest that your
group carfully study and discuss the concepts and ideas in
Crystal's Access Basics article at:
http://www.accessmvp.com/strive4peace/

Crystal is a professional technical trainer so she has an
easily inderstood way of explaining the kind of stuff that
relative beginners need to know.

--
Marsh
MVP [MS Access]

"Sunrise" wrote in message
...

Thanks for your reply Keith. I've learned some new things from reading
the
responses to my posting. This has been helpful for me. Isn't that the
point? To learn and discuss?

I thought that this was a forum for discussion on MS Access reports. I
didn't think that this was where we posted new threads on what a bad tool
Access was, especially when that just isn't the case.

We sometimes get clowns on here that poke their heads round the door, hurl
abuse at the application and then run. That's how your posting came across
to me, hence my reply, but clearly that was not your intention so I
apologise for the tone.

FWIW I learned to use Access "on the job" and (on and off) it took me years
but the benefits are invaluable. I know it doesn't help your immediate
situation but I would recommend taking "baby steps" to learn Access and
review its usefulness to you at regular intervals. There's free help
available here but also remember there are about a dozen or so different
groups for support in reports, forms, tables, security et al. I'm no MVP
but I would certainly try to help if it's within my capabilities.

Good luck.

Keith.
www.keithwilby.co.uk

I have also successfully used lunch-learning sessions to provide basic
training. The best part of it is that all of the training was directly
applicable to our office.

On a more general note, it seems to me that there are two approaches to
using Access in an office. EIther you can have an Access developer who has
in depth knowledge, or you can have a lot of people who have a basic
understanding of Access. A developer can create an application that is
highly user friendly and idot proof (mostly). However, someone with no more
than a basic understanding of tables and the Report Designer can use Access
successfully to track and report data. What they can't do is build/code
menus and automated solutions.

It comes down to your office strategy. Do you hire a developer (or choose
someone in the office to attend training and spend much of their time on
Access related projects), or do you provide a little training and allow
individuals to develope small-scale reporting systems? There are pros and
cons for each approach. The decision depends on what works for your office.
Or what you have to work with due to budget constraints.

I agree with you that Access is underutilitzed. But I also think that
something as potentioally powerful as Access will, by its very nature, have
complexities. I think they've done a pretty good job of keeping the basics
simple, while allowing the advanced user/developer to manipulate those
complexities.

Good luck to you and may I also add my encouragement to use these message
boards? There are many highly talented people here, who generously help
those of us who are learning on the fly.

Kari

"Marshall Barton" wrote:

Sunrise wrote:
As an administrative professional and someone who has a keen eye for
improving efficiency in offices I am very excited to promote the use of
Access within my office and department. I realize now that it is more
intended for developers than for secretaries. But, we need it.

In my view, databases can play an enormous role in reducing workload and
improving our reporting function. The need to 'report' and 'measure' our
productivity and effectiveness has been growing like a disease in our
government (this is a documented fact). Everyone is complaining and
struggling to find a way to cope. With the economy in decline there is no
hope of creating jobs within our structure for Access developers.

I have started voluntary 'lunch and learn' sessions for my staff where we
share our software knowledge - tips and techniques etc. I also pair up
employees who 'know' with employees who 'want/need to learn'. This works out
great - we teach each other. So, through our software sharing we will
endeavour to keep the Access knowledge/skill alive within our office.


As long as your folks are interested, I think lunch-learning
discussions are an outstanding idea.

To toss my two cents into your pot, I suggest that your
group carfully study and discuss the concepts and ideas in
Crystal's Access Basics article at:
http://www.accessmvp.com/strive4peace/

Crystal is a professional technical trainer so she has an
easily inderstood way of explaining the kind of stuff that
relative beginners need to know.

--
Marsh
MVP [MS Access]

I've been off-line for a few days. I am overwhelmed by the positive
responses and generous support offered. Thank you to all for your support
and suggestions. I have checked out the links that were suggested and they
will prove to be very useful to me and those on my staff who are interested.

Klaatu, I would be honoured to take you up on your amazing generous offer.
I am reluctant however to mention my location on-line. I've tried to email
you using addresses that I found on Google but they bounced back. If you
have access to my actual email address I give you permission to use it. If
not, can you provide me with yours?

I have access to a network of administrative workers and am considering ways
that I can promote the use of Access within their (my) community. Perhaps by
developing and distributing basic templates that would be useful to all
administrative people (i.e. managing phone lists, human resources data, and
some financials too) and then broadening the lunch-and-learn sessions to a
wider group. This will take a lot of time and thought and may not be
feasible in the end. I am using my own office as a pilot and will have to
assess the possibilities for the future.

There is no question that developers have done some fantastic work on the
development of Access.

Thanks again.
--
Sunrise


"Klatuu" wrote:

Good post, Sunrise.

I certainly intended no offense. I do applaud what you are doing. I might
offer a suggestion. There are consultants who could provide some training
during your lunch sessions. It may be out of budget for you, but another
thing I would offer to help with would be to get it done for free.

If you can tell me where you are located, I will try to find an Access MVP
close to you and see if I can coerse him/her into some free introductory
basics to help you get started.

Also, in addition to these newsgroups, there are several MVPs who have sites
with lots of useful information. One that has more content that most is
http://www.allenbrowne.com

Hope to hear from you soon.
--
Dave Hargis, Microsoft Access MVP


"Sunrise" wrote:

As an administrative professional and someone who has a keen eye for
improving efficiency in offices I am very excited to promote the use of
Access within my office and department. I realize now that it is more
intended for developers than for secretaries. But, we need it.

In my view, databases can play an enormous role in reducing workload and
improving our reporting function. The need to 'report' and 'measure' our
productivity and effectiveness has been growing like a disease in our
government (this is a documented fact). Everyone is complaining and
struggling to find a way to cope. With the economy in decline there is no
hope of creating jobs within our structure for Access developers.

I have started voluntary 'lunch and learn' sessions for my staff where we
share our software knowledge - tips and techniques etc. I also pair up
employees who 'know' with employees who 'want/need to learn'. This works out
great - we teach each other. So, through our software sharing we will
endeavour to keep the Access knowledge/skill alive within our office.

Thanks for listening.
--
Sunrise


"Klatuu" wrote:

Actually, Microsoft has spent a lot of effort to make Access available to the
masses. We professional developers some times think perhaps too much.

Anybody can paint a wall, but only Michaelangelo could do the Cistene
Chapel. For keeping track of some simplistic data, it doesn't take much to
make Access useful. And it does not take knowledge of VBA to do so. There
are some fairly complex databases around that have no VBA at all, but it is
useful for manipulating more complex data and for creating user interfaces
that prevent incorrect data from being entered. I have seen some good apps
using only Macros.

As has already been stated, Access is not as much an application as a
development tool, but it can be used effectively without a lot of training.
You do need to understand some basic Database Normalization methods and
rules, but you also have to know some basic arithmetic to use Excel and be to
some degree literate to use Word.

Now, in parting, and with good will, if you are one of those agencies who
wants to collect some of my money or impose more regulations on my life, I
hope you never get it right; otherwise, I encourage you to keep at it. These
newsgroups are about the best place to learn.
--
Dave Hargis, Microsoft Access MVP


"Sunrise" wrote:

Access is part of the suite of products supplied to all workers in my federal
government offices - many thousands of workers. Conceptually it is a great
product but rarely used due to its complex nature. IT support rarely has
specialized knowledge of software packages and focuses mainly on the larger
technical issues like connectivity problems and networking etc. As such,
administrative staff are left to solve their own problems with
software...which competes with heavy workloads. The result is that MS-Access
is not used very often because you have to have a lot of experience and
training for it to be useful and maintainable. Many offices have a high
turnover of staff. A database is only useful if it is maintainable. Barely
anyone knows how to use it.

As an office manager I am creating databases for my office but am keeping
them as simple as possible because I know that, if I don't, when I move on
there will be no one in the office who can maintain them and they will be
dropped. If I add complexities to the databases I am in essence 'wasting my
time'.

This tool of efficiency has so much potential but is not being used because
no one has the knowledge or training to use it.

MS should continue developing this wonderful administrative tool with an eye
to making it easier for the beginner to produce reports more easily.
Administrative staff become familiar with Word because they have no choice.
It is not the same story with Access...because it is optional. It would be
nice to see a twinning of the features in Word with those in Access so the
transition would be seamless, quick, and easy for those who are comfortable
with Word.

An example is the line between columns. Through this community I received a
response to my question on this topic. I am greatful but surprised that a
simple line could require such in depth knowledge and VBA programming.. This
is ridiculous. In Word you are asked if you want a line between columns and
then click YES.

People don't make the transition because the transition is too hard to make
and they have too much work to do.
--
Sunrise

Thank you Marchall. What a great site.
--
Sunrise


"Marshall Barton" wrote:

Sunrise wrote:
As an administrative professional and someone who has a keen eye for
improving efficiency in offices I am very excited to promote the use of
Access within my office and department. I realize now that it is more
intended for developers than for secretaries. But, we need it.

In my view, databases can play an enormous role in reducing workload and
improving our reporting function. The need to 'report' and 'measure' our
productivity and effectiveness has been growing like a disease in our
government (this is a documented fact). Everyone is complaining and
struggling to find a way to cope. With the economy in decline there is no
hope of creating jobs within our structure for Access developers.

I have started voluntary 'lunch and learn' sessions for my staff where we
share our software knowledge - tips and techniques etc. I also pair up
employees who 'know' with employees who 'want/need to learn'. This works out
great - we teach each other. So, through our software sharing we will
endeavour to keep the Access knowledge/skill alive within our office.


As long as your folks are interested, I think lunch-learning
discussions are an outstanding idea.

To toss my two cents into your pot, I suggest that your
group carfully study and discuss the concepts and ideas in
Crystal's Access Basics article at:
http://www.accessmvp.com/strive4peace/

Crystal is a professional technical trainer so she has an
easily inderstood way of explaining the kind of stuff that
relative beginners need to know.

--
Marsh
MVP [MS Access]