FYI Word 2007 users who must have menus

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:47:10 -0500, "Beth Melton"
wrote:

What are you talking about? Larry hasn't moved beyond Word 97. And based on
the several years I've been around these newsgroups, and him, I've never
seen anyone force him to do anything he doesn't want to do. ;-)

Again, I don't think this is the point. Larry was not accusing anyone
here of forcing him to do anything (other than listen to Greg's temper
tantrums). His point was that MS is forcing him by replacing the tool
he knows with one that he does not like and, unlike the car analogy,
he cannot easily just keep his old clunker or buy a car from another
company. I happen to agree with his point. It's a valid point.

But, if he's still on Word 97, then I have to withdraw my support. I
am happily humming the theme song from *Thoroughly Modern Millie*
while running Word 2000 on Win 2000. No clunkers for me.


"LurfysMa" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 02:08:38 -0400, "Greg Maxey"
wrote:

I think you have completely missed Larry's point. If you like the new
product or if you are willing to spend hours learning new techniques,
that's great. Larry's point is that MS has forced him to do so.



--
Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:56:09 +0100, "Terry Farrell"
wrote:

So far, you have added absolutely nothing in the way of debate. I've been
reading Larry's opinions for far too long (it isn't just in this thread). If
you read back through the newsgroup, you will see that I am not in total
disagreement with him either and he certainly has my understanding and
sympathy.

The point I made is that he has made the same point repeatedly: he doesn't
like the new interface.

That's valuable information. I am far more interested in hearing from
unhappy campers than listening to the choir. I can decide if he's a
luddite or a troll or an adolescent.

This newsgroup is to help others with problems or queries about all versions
of Word: Larry doesn't seem to want help. There is a time when enough is
enough.

Who gets to be the judge?

How you deduced me as a "half-assed personality / social analysis" from one
statement is clever. It make me happy. And what the hell have lemmings to do
with this?

You said that Larry's "endless diatribe" was "a little sad". I;d say
that was at least patronizing, if not psychoanalysis.

Lemmings are the little critters who jump over the cliff to their
death just because the little critter ahead of them did so. Here's
Larry yelling, "Stop! It's a goddamn cliff. Stop running.". It sounded
to me like some of you were saying, "Shut up and follow.".

Well, we've certainly beat this one to death.

--
Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000

We were repeatedly told that there was no satisfactory way to provide a
"Classic" view for Word 2007, certainly not if the product was to meet its
release date. The fact that so far no add-in that attempts to provide that
view is totally satisfactory should be proof of this.

Word 2003 is and will continue to be fully supported for several more
versions; Word 97 is currently out of support and I believe Word 2000 as
well.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"LurfysMa" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:48:48 -0500, "Suzanne S. Barnhill"
wrote:

I suspect that the next version of Word may take some "backward" steps to
accommodate those who were not ready for it. Holding fast with Word 2003
now
and then upgrading to Word 14 may be the best plan.

If that happens, then Larry has a much bigger complaint. If they were
(or are) going to do it, they should have (a) done it now or (b)
announced that they had this backup plan and 2003 would be fully
supported until it was ready.

Now I am getting madder.

--
Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000

It's a "forum" (look it up), not a MS support group. There is supposed
to be differences of opinion. I strongly differ with yours, for
example, but I'm telling you to shut up.

Actually, this is not correct. The microsoft.public newsgroup hierarchy are
hosted by Microsoft for the purpose of user peer support. The fact that they
are propagated to other news servers and slurped by Web portals (including
Microsoft's own) is irrelevant: Microsoft owns these NGs.

Moreover, the purpose of these NGs is support. Although there is an
inevitable amount of discussion and chitchat, their primary purpose is for
people to ask questions and get answers. That being the case, it might be
argued that any post that is not either a question or an answer (or at least
an attempt at an answer) is off-topic.

And although it certainly does people some good to kvetch and have others
agree with them, it does not help anyone. If you come here and complain
about something you don't like and we can tell you a way to work around it,
or explain that you have misinterpreted it and there's actually a way for
you to do what you want after all, then that's useful. When we begin to lose
patience is when people won't take no for an answer. If we tell them, "There
is no way to do this in Word," and they keep coming back and asking how to
do it, it's very frustrating. Similarly, if we tell someone, "Sorry, that's
just the way it is. Deal with it," and he keeps coming back and complaining
about it endlessly, then it does become very wearing, not least because we
have a sincere desire to help, and there is no way we can help in this
situation.


--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"LurfysMa" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 16:20:44 -0400, "Greg Maxey"
wrote:

Larry,

I don't see anything cheap in the shot at all. Of course that is my
opinion
and it differs from yours.

And from mine.

My point remains that anyone that has been reading your posts recently is
fully aware that you don't like Word2007. To continue the diatribe is
well
... sounding like a broken record.

Then ignore his posts.

Again this is just my opinion. Your
endless grousing about Word2007 here in this formum is not going to bring
back the old UI.

It's a "forum" (look it up), not a MS support group. There is supposed
to be differences of opinion. I strongly differ with yours, for
example, but I'm telling you to shut up.

And your endless happy face is, at best, useless.

You have other options. Designing your own software was just one of
them.

Idiotic statement.

--
Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:56:09 -0400 from Larry :
There are a lot of people frequenting this group who want to say what I'm
saying, but comments like the above make them afraid to say it.

(1) "The lurkers support me in email"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lurker#...Me_in_Email.22

(2) "The above" -- that's rich, since you're posting upside down and
the quote is *below* your comment, not above it.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/

This has been very lively discussion. I thank LurfysMa for bravely taking
my side against the massed might of the MVPs, though at the last moment she
(and I assume from the name it's a she) seems to have changed her mind,
though maybe she's being ironic, on finding out that I still use Word 97.
But if she's not being ironic but means it, that's pretty funny, given that
she herself uses Word 2000.

I want to point out that certain people in this thread, after saying they
had no intention of putting me down in personal terms or trying to
intimidate me away from speaking my mind, repeatedly used language about me
that obviously had that intention.

Also, to act as if these groups exist for no other purpose than giving and
receiving help, so that we cannot DISCUSS the software that is under
discussion, is not acceptable. I will continue to have questions about Word
2007 (not for myself at the moment, but for someone I'm helping with it),
and along with those questions there inevitably arises the issue of Word
2007's horrendous interface and the costs resulting from the wholesale
destruction of the previous interface. For people just to accept the 2007
interface and never comment on it, would turn us into the mindless slaves of
Microsoft.

Someone mentioned that the next version of Word may "pull back" a bit from
the extreme dismantling of Word that was done in 2007. If that is true, it
may have something to do with the ability that exists in these groups to
discuss Word, its good points and its bad points, frankly and freely.

I know certain MVPs disagree with me and disapprove of me on this issue,
but, as has already been said, if they feel that way, they can always ignore
those posts of mine that they feel add nothing useful.

Larry





"LurfysMa" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:47:10 -0500, "Beth Melton"
wrote:

What are you talking about? Larry hasn't moved beyond Word 97. And based
on
the several years I've been around these newsgroups, and him, I've never
seen anyone force him to do anything he doesn't want to do. ;-)

Again, I don't think this is the point. Larry was not accusing anyone
here of forcing him to do anything (other than listen to Greg's temper
tantrums). His point was that MS is forcing him by replacing the tool
he knows with one that he does not like and, unlike the car analogy,
he cannot easily just keep his old clunker or buy a car from another
company. I happen to agree with his point. It's a valid point.

But, if he's still on Word 97, then I have to withdraw my support. I
am happily humming the theme song from *Thoroughly Modern Millie*
while running Word 2000 on Win 2000. No clunkers for me.


"LurfysMa" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 02:08:38 -0400, "Greg Maxey"
wrote:

I think you have completely missed Larry's point. If you like the new
product or if you are willing to spend hours learning new techniques,
that's great. Larry's point is that MS has forced him to do so.



--
Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000

Larry

We will always try to answer any questions: please don't think that we are
putting anyone on a blacklist.

The point we are making is not to agree or disagree with your dislike of the
new interface (you already know that I support many of your concerns), but
further arguments about the interface is not going to get us any further. We
need to progress with what we have.

Despite what others may think, MVPs are not Microsoft Lackeys worshipping
their every decision. Be assured that we raised concerns about lack of
legacy interface option, lack of ribbon customisation and a host of other
dislikes and concerns with MS.

Terry Farrell

"Larry" wrote in message
...


This has been very lively discussion. I thank LurfysMa for bravely taking
my side against the massed might of the MVPs, though at the last moment
she
(and I assume from the name it's a she) seems to have changed her mind,
though maybe she's being ironic, on finding out that I still use Word 97.
But if she's not being ironic but means it, that's pretty funny, given
that
she herself uses Word 2000.

I want to point out that certain people in this thread, after saying they
had no intention of putting me down in personal terms or trying to
intimidate me away from speaking my mind, repeatedly used language about
me
that obviously had that intention.

Also, to act as if these groups exist for no other purpose than giving and
receiving help, so that we cannot DISCUSS the software that is under
discussion, is not acceptable. I will continue to have questions about
Word
2007 (not for myself at the moment, but for someone I'm helping with it),
and along with those questions there inevitably arises the issue of Word
2007's horrendous interface and the costs resulting from the wholesale
destruction of the previous interface. For people just to accept the 2007
interface and never comment on it, would turn us into the mindless slaves
of
Microsoft.

Someone mentioned that the next version of Word may "pull back" a bit from
the extreme dismantling of Word that was done in 2007. If that is true,
it
may have something to do with the ability that exists in these groups to
discuss Word, its good points and its bad points, frankly and freely.

I know certain MVPs disagree with me and disapprove of me on this issue,
but, as has already been said, if they feel that way, they can always
ignore
those posts of mine that they feel add nothing useful.

Larry

Agreed.

We addressed customization concerns 18 months ago. At first, like you, many
were outraged. But quality feedback isn't telling someone "this stinks" -
that won't get you very far and it's honestly not a "discussion". A
discussion consists of knowledgeable, rational, and reasonable feedback,
along with offering suggestions instead of mere criticism. Quality feedback
goes something like, first complement an aspect you like, provide a problem
statement, and then offer a reasonable suggestion. (At least that's what
seems to work for me. ;-) ). We've offered numerous suggestions for the last
18 months and right now all we can do is wait. There have been hints but
nothing has been confirmed.

The only way to provide quality feedback and have a knowledgeable discussion
on any subject is to first understand what you're talking about and not make
quick assessments. I don't think making sure I have a full understanding of
a subject in order to provide quality feedback makes me a "mindless slave"
or a "Microsoft Lackey", I think it's called "knowing your enemy". grin
And typically, as you get to know your enemy, you discover along the way
that they are some qualities about your enemy that you like, but it doesn't
mean you love everything about your enemy, and you still address those
concerns every chance you get.

I think you'd have to agree that when all someone has to say are things such
as, "horrendous", "hideous catastrophe", "monstrosity", it sounds more like
Henny Penny -- someone who is running about in a crazed state yelling "Word
is coming to its demise! We must act quickly and swiftly to stop this
catastrophe!". It doesn't sound rational or reasonable - it certainly isn't
laying the groundwork for a rationale discussion.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
Larry

We will always try to answer any questions: please don't think that we are
putting anyone on a blacklist.

The point we are making is not to agree or disagree with your dislike of
the new interface (you already know that I support many of your concerns),
but further arguments about the interface is not going to get us any
further. We need to progress with what we have.

Despite what others may think, MVPs are not Microsoft Lackeys worshipping
their every decision. Be assured that we raised concerns about lack of
legacy interface option, lack of ribbon customisation and a host of other
dislikes and concerns with MS.

Terry Farrell

"Larry" wrote in message
...


This has been very lively discussion. I thank LurfysMa for bravely
taking
my side against the massed might of the MVPs, though at the last moment
she
(and I assume from the name it's a she) seems to have changed her mind,
though maybe she's being ironic, on finding out that I still use Word 97.
But if she's not being ironic but means it, that's pretty funny, given
that
she herself uses Word 2000.

I want to point out that certain people in this thread, after saying they
had no intention of putting me down in personal terms or trying to
intimidate me away from speaking my mind, repeatedly used language about
me
that obviously had that intention.

Also, to act as if these groups exist for no other purpose than giving
and
receiving help, so that we cannot DISCUSS the software that is under
discussion, is not acceptable. I will continue to have questions about
Word
2007 (not for myself at the moment, but for someone I'm helping with it),
and along with those questions there inevitably arises the issue of Word
2007's horrendous interface and the costs resulting from the wholesale
destruction of the previous interface. For people just to accept the
2007
interface and never comment on it, would turn us into the mindless slaves
of
Microsoft.

Someone mentioned that the next version of Word may "pull back" a bit
from
the extreme dismantling of Word that was done in 2007. If that is true,
it
may have something to do with the ability that exists in these groups to
discuss Word, its good points and its bad points, frankly and freely.

I know certain MVPs disagree with me and disapprove of me on this issue,
but, as has already been said, if they feel that way, they can always
ignore
those posts of mine that they feel add nothing useful.

Larry

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:46:52 -0400, "Larry"
wrote:

This has been very lively discussion. I thank LurfysMa for bravely taking
my side against the massed might of the MVPs, though at the last moment she
(and I assume from the name it's a she) seems to have changed her mind,
though maybe she's being ironic, on finding out that I still use Word 97.
But if she's not being ironic but means it, that's pretty funny, given that
she herself uses Word 2000.

Geez, Larry, maybe your detractors are right. Yes, I was kidding you
and being ironic. Did you need to ask? You might want to go in to have
your obsessive-compulsive levels checked. ;-)

BTW: We are upgrading all of our computers soon and will be installing
Office 2007. That's why your post caught my eye. I'll let you know if
I agree with your opinion of the interface. Even if I like it, I still
consider MS arrogant and dismissive of the needs of many users. It's
primary customers are corporations who buy thousands of licenses. This
NG is one way MS gets a lot of hard-working folks to work for free
answering questions about the vagaries of their products. If they paid
the MVPs even half of what they are worth, many of them could quit
their day jobs.


--
Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000

Some may see it that way, but for me, the newsgroups help increase my
knowledge of the applications.You see, the newsgroups are a two-way street.
I learn something new every day, either by reading advice offered by others
or researching a question, and that makes me more of an asset in my
profession. There's only so much you can learn on your own. :-)

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton

"LurfysMa" wrote in message
...
This NG is one way MS gets a lot of hard-working folks to work for free
answering questions about the vagaries of their products. If they paid
the MVPs even half of what they are worth, many of them could quit
their day jobs.