Outlook Express Irritating Cleanup Dialog

Thanks, Bruce. I removed the Win Search (even though Windows about had a heart attack that I wanted to remove such a program). I did a full HDD image backup first, so if anything screws up I can recover.

Thanks to you and PA Bear for all the help and advice.

--
Pete B


"Bruce Hagen" wrote in message ...
It will stop the indexing of OE by that program and it /should/ resolve your
issue.
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"Pete B" wrote in message
...
No you did not mention that name. I do not recall where I saw the term,
maybe in the Help file or something. But OK that is what I will remove.
Will that stop all the indexing as well?


--
Pete B


"Bruce Hagen" wrote in message
...
It is Windows Search 4.0. I don't believe either myself or PA Bear
mentioned
"Live".
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"Pete B" wrote in message
...
OK guys, before I do something stupid, let me ask a stupid question: how
do
I remove Windows Live Search? Is that the Windows Search 4.0 app I see
listed in the A/R window installed programs list? I opened WLS itself and
checked the About but naturally it is useless.... I do not actually see
anything named Windows Live Search anywhere that I can remove.


--
Pete B



"Pete B" wrote in message
...
Wow! A lot of info from you and Bruce both, thanks.

I assume that you are talking about Nero plugins in IE, as I do not see
any
such function in OEx. In any case, I do not have any such plugins.

Thanks to you guys, I just found out I actually had Windows Live Search, I
never even knew it was there (tells you how often I use that function).
If
as you say I can remove it, color it gone as soon as I finish posting this
:=). If for nothing else than, how stupid can you get to design a program
like that where you have to enter filenames and cannot even do it with
Copy/Paste?

Let me ask you: I have been trying to shut off indexing for months, short
of going into MSCONFIG and disabling startup of indexing services. If I
get
rid of Win Livwe Search will that elimeinate all the indexing that
suddenly
started running on my PC? I have used the MMC and everythiong else I can
find and have not been able to get Indexing to not run. Yes, I did have
WLS
indexing ermails, not anymore.... Anything else I can do to totally
eliminate indexing? Will removing WLS get rid of all that stuff in the
CPL
app e.g. file types indexing etc as well as the emails?

I disagree with that article on email scanning most emphatically. Maybe
that goes for MS's av software, but my AV, Kaspersky's, and my previous,
AVG, do scans for a lot more than just viruses, it scans for spam and
malware too. I think the guy is wrong to advise not using email scanning.
I have also seen Kaspersky's pick up infected attachments to emails which
are actually one of the the most common way viruses spread. So no way am
I
disabling it. If that advice is what MS says is proper, they need to fix
OEx, not put my PC in danger. MS has the problem, not the AV software. I
want my AV software scanning EVERYTHING, not just what MS says it can
handle.

I do have WinXP SP3, and I do believe this all started about when I
installed the SP3. So that makes sense. It happens when closing OEx or
even when it is still running and it happens about every other day; I use
OEx maybe half dozen times a day max. I do move the emails, empty deleted
etc but it seldom seemed to make any difference for this issue.

I will see if what you listed makes my problems go away or at least get
tolerable. I still think this should be a silent operation thing; I
don't
mind the indexing itself, what I hate is being asked for approval every
time; there shopuld be an option to make it happen unattended. Just do
it,
for gods sake..... :=)


Thanks to you and Bruce (so far).....



--
Pete B



"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote in message
...
See this June 2008 discussion about this WinXP SP3-specific problem:
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...d35fbfa457fd6f

For reference, here's a current list of items known to cause this
behavior
(which is NOT being seen by the vast majority of OE users) in "most often
seen" order

. Nero plug-in(s) including Nero Scout*;
. Windows (Desktop) Search is installed
[FIX: Uninstall the application or CONTROL PANEL | INDEXING OPTIONS |
MODIFY | Clear the check box for Outlook Express files (i.e., EML, NWS, &
DBX files)];
. IBM Rapid Access keyboard (driver) RAKDLL.DLL;
. Various & sundry anti-virus applications (including Norton);
. Various & sundry anti-spyware applications;
. Various & sundry third-party firewalls;
. Any/all of the above running when WinXP SP3 was installed;
. Disk defragmentation, need for;
. Using Visual Basic DoCmd.SendObject command to create an email;
. Using any number third-party applications (e.g., accounting software;
FileMaker 6) to send emails by via Outlook Express;
. MailWasher; and/or
. Programatically opening EML files while OE is closed (e.g., creating a
New Message via Address Book).

Please note that OE itself can issue this prompt but only when you close
it.
Adhere to all of the following and you should never see the Automatic
Compact prompt (coming from OE) again:

- Don't use Inbox or Sent Items to archive messages. Move them to local
folders created for this purpose.

- Empty Deleted Items folder daily.

- Frequently perform a manual compact of all OE folders while "working
offline". More at http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm

- Do not cancel Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt
to
close OE via Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic
Compacting
is taking place.

- Disable email scanning by your anti-virus application. It can cause
corruption (i.e., loss of messages) and provides no additional
protection:

Why you don't need your anti-virus to scan your email
http://thundercloud.net/infoave/tuto...ning/index.htm

===============
*IN RE Nero Scout, see Item 2.3 on page 8 he
ftp://ftp6.nero.com/user_guides/nero...oScout_Enu.pdf

Also see http://www.nero.com/eng/support-faq.html?s=sub&t=Scout
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002


Pete B wrote:
Any way I can change the frequency of the totally annoying
"cleanup/compact" routine that OEx starts up almost every other time I
close the program? Or alternatively, is there any way to stop it form
asking for my input on the matter evry time, rather than just doing the
damend useless task silently?


The damned dialog even pops up now when I am in the middle of using the
program. Talk about Microsoft Malware, this has to be the most asinine
implementation of an idea Microsoft ever dreamed up (well, except
Windows
98, maybe)....

You're welcome.
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"Pete B" wrote in message
...
Thanks, Bruce. I removed the Win Search (even though Windows about had a
heart attack that I wanted to remove such a program). I did a full HDD
image backup first, so if anything screws up I can recover.

Thanks to you and PA Bear for all the help and advice.

--
Pete B


"Bruce Hagen" wrote in message
...
It will stop the indexing of OE by that program and it /should/ resolve
your
issue.
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"Pete B" wrote in message
...
No you did not mention that name. I do not recall where I saw the term,
maybe in the Help file or something. But OK that is what I will remove.
Will that stop all the indexing as well?


--
Pete B


"Bruce Hagen" wrote in message
...
It is Windows Search 4.0. I don't believe either myself or PA Bear
mentioned
"Live".
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"Pete B" wrote in message
...
OK guys, before I do something stupid, let me ask a stupid question: how
do
I remove Windows Live Search? Is that the Windows Search 4.0 app I see
listed in the A/R window installed programs list? I opened WLS itself
and
checked the About but naturally it is useless.... I do not actually see
anything named Windows Live Search anywhere that I can remove.


--
Pete B



"Pete B" wrote in message
...
Wow! A lot of info from you and Bruce both, thanks.

I assume that you are talking about Nero plugins in IE, as I do not see
any
such function in OEx. In any case, I do not have any such plugins.

Thanks to you guys, I just found out I actually had Windows Live Search,
I
never even knew it was there (tells you how often I use that function).
If
as you say I can remove it, color it gone as soon as I finish posting
this
:=). If for nothing else than, how stupid can you get to design a
program
like that where you have to enter filenames and cannot even do it with
Copy/Paste?

Let me ask you: I have been trying to shut off indexing for months,
short
of going into MSCONFIG and disabling startup of indexing services. If I
get
rid of Win Livwe Search will that elimeinate all the indexing that
suddenly
started running on my PC? I have used the MMC and everythiong else I can
find and have not been able to get Indexing to not run. Yes, I did have
WLS
indexing ermails, not anymore.... Anything else I can do to totally
eliminate indexing? Will removing WLS get rid of all that stuff in the
CPL
app e.g. file types indexing etc as well as the emails?

I disagree with that article on email scanning most emphatically. Maybe
that goes for MS's av software, but my AV, Kaspersky's, and my previous,
AVG, do scans for a lot more than just viruses, it scans for spam and
malware too. I think the guy is wrong to advise not using email
scanning.
I have also seen Kaspersky's pick up infected attachments to emails which
are actually one of the the most common way viruses spread. So no way am
I
disabling it. If that advice is what MS says is proper, they need to fix
OEx, not put my PC in danger. MS has the problem, not the AV software.
I
want my AV software scanning EVERYTHING, not just what MS says it can
handle.

I do have WinXP SP3, and I do believe this all started about when I
installed the SP3. So that makes sense. It happens when closing OEx or
even when it is still running and it happens about every other day; I
use
OEx maybe half dozen times a day max. I do move the emails, empty
deleted
etc but it seldom seemed to make any difference for this issue.

I will see if what you listed makes my problems go away or at least get
tolerable. I still think this should be a silent operation thing; I
don't
mind the indexing itself, what I hate is being asked for approval every
time; there shopuld be an option to make it happen unattended. Just do
it,
for gods sake..... :=)


Thanks to you and Bruce (so far).....



--
Pete B



"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote in message
...
See this June 2008 discussion about this WinXP SP3-specific problem:
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...d35fbfa457fd6f

For reference, here's a current list of items known to cause this
behavior
(which is NOT being seen by the vast majority of OE users) in "most
often
seen" order

. Nero plug-in(s) including Nero Scout*;
. Windows (Desktop) Search is installed
[FIX: Uninstall the application or CONTROL PANEL | INDEXING OPTIONS
|
MODIFY | Clear the check box for Outlook Express files (i.e., EML, NWS,
&
DBX files)];
. IBM Rapid Access keyboard (driver) RAKDLL.DLL;
. Various & sundry anti-virus applications (including Norton);
. Various & sundry anti-spyware applications;
. Various & sundry third-party firewalls;
. Any/all of the above running when WinXP SP3 was installed;
. Disk defragmentation, need for;
. Using Visual Basic DoCmd.SendObject command to create an email;
. Using any number third-party applications (e.g., accounting software;
FileMaker 6) to send emails by via Outlook Express;
. MailWasher; and/or
. Programatically opening EML files while OE is closed (e.g., creating
a
New Message via Address Book).

Please note that OE itself can issue this prompt but only when you close
it.
Adhere to all of the following and you should never see the Automatic
Compact prompt (coming from OE) again:

- Don't use Inbox or Sent Items to archive messages. Move them to local
folders created for this purpose.

- Empty Deleted Items folder daily.

- Frequently perform a manual compact of all OE folders while "working
offline". More at http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm

- Do not cancel Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not
attempt
to
close OE via Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic
Compacting
is taking place.

- Disable email scanning by your anti-virus application. It can cause
corruption (i.e., loss of messages) and provides no additional
protection:

Why you don't need your anti-virus to scan your email
http://thundercloud.net/infoave/tuto...ning/index.htm

===============
*IN RE Nero Scout, see Item 2.3 on page 8 he
ftp://ftp6.nero.com/user_guides/nero...oScout_Enu.pdf

Also see http://www.nero.com/eng/support-faq.html?s=sub&t=Scout
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002


Pete B wrote:
Any way I can change the frequency of the totally annoying
"cleanup/compact" routine that OEx starts up almost every other time I
close the program? Or alternatively, is there any way to stop it form
asking for my input on the matter evry time, rather than just doing the
damend useless task silently?


The damned dialog even pops up now when I am in the middle of using the
program. Talk about Microsoft Malware, this has to be the most asinine
implementation of an idea Microsoft ever dreamed up (well, except
Windows
98, maybe)....

Work OE and Windows Mail newsgroups for 5-10 years then revisit that
statement, Pete.

AV scanning of incoming & outgoing mail is not necessary and it /has/ caused
corruption for thousands of OE users over the years.

Pete B wrote:
blither snippage
...I never once can recall anyone who had a corrupted email
database...

On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 16:04:45 -0500, Pete B wrote:

Well, that would be true if all email viruses and malware and spam behaved
as you suggest, and if all AV programs followed your rules.

Those aren't my "rules", just observations of activity in the real world.

But me, I'd rather catch the problem **before** I opened the email.

Alas, your AV scanner will not catch a zero day virus. They do exist, and
you'd better know how to handle one.

Modern email clients have safety features WRT handling active content in
email. Unless you override them, you won't get bit. You can do whatever you
wish, but nothing you do changes the way things are in the real world. You
may even hang garlands of garlic cloves at your doors and windows, if you
wish to repel vampires!

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

If you say so. I have never seen nor heard of it, but I suppose anything is possible. I can see it if someone messes with the scanning, but then, any software of any kind can screw things up just about anywhere on a PC. I would be MUCH more concerned about AV software scanning Windows program files (like say libs in a new update for something) than I would about it scanning email. Besides, my AV scans the emails and everything else related on the server BEFORE they are downloaded, so I really do not see how anything could screw up my message db; if it finds a suspicious email, the first thing it does is warn me and ask if I want to download it. And if I do dl something suspicious, it goes to a protected area rather than just dumped onto the HDD wherever it normally downloads files, thus keeping it isolated in a secure "vault" for me to look at before deciding what to do with it.

And I still disagree that scanning mail is "unnecessary". If that is the case, so is scanning anything else "unnecessary". In the case of a download that can affect an entire database, I'd say scanning whatever is going to be put into it is not only necessary, it is MANDATORY. Now, if you are talking about the AV scanning process itself being the danger, that may be the case if the AV software somehow fails while files are open and such, but hell, the same thing happens during a power failure, or worse, or when something "hangs" your PC (like...ahem... an installation of some new Windows software) and you cannot even do a soft reboot so you have to either power down or do a hard reboot, or last, my ISP itself often "hangs" even in the middle of fetching mail or a file and my whole system freezes with no way to exit other than a shutdown. And after years with WinXP Pro I have rarely ever seen that stuff corrupt a file either, INCLUDING hanging during a time when an email is open. (Win 98/ME and earlier is a whole 'nuther story, though).

Unless you are talking Norton's, that stuff kills a PC before you even open the box and install it.....

And finally, like I said, if the email program on MS Windows is so vulnerable, then MS should fix it so it is damage-proof, rather than just give folks all the more reason to switch to Firefox.....

--
Pete B


"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote in message ...
Work OE and Windows Mail newsgroups for 5-10 years then revisit that
statement, Pete.

AV scanning of incoming & outgoing mail is not necessary and it /has/ caused
corruption for thousands of OE users over the years.

Pete B wrote:
blither snippage
...I never once can recall anyone who had a corrupted email
database...

All development on OE and Windows Mail (Vista) was stopped by executive fiat
in June 2006 (yes, while Vista was still in beta) and all further efforts
and monies were devoted solely to Windows Live Mail [AKA Windows Live
(Hot)Mail Desktop].

What you see in OE and Windows Mail now is as good as it's ever going to
get.

Judging from beta builds, Win7 [AKA Vista SP3 in some circles] will not
include any default Mail Client.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002


Pete B wrote:
blither snippage
And finally, like I said, if the email program on MS Windows is so
vulnerable, then MS should fix it so it is damage-proof, rather than just
give folks all the more reason to switch to Firefox.....


"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote in message
...
Work OE and Windows Mail newsgroups for 5-10 years then revisit that
statement, Pete.

AV scanning of incoming & outgoing mail is not necessary and it /has/
caused corruption for thousands of OE users over the years.

Pete B wrote:
blither snippage
...I never once can recall anyone who had a corrupted email
database...

So I have read. As usual, MS is trying to make the world follow what MS wnats to produce, instead of MS following the what the world wants MS to produce. You would think MS would have learned after their experiences with the EU.

All the more customers for other mail clients. There really is nothing super-special about MS email anyway.

--
Pete B


"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote in message ...
All development on OE and Windows Mail (Vista) was stopped by executive fiat
in June 2006 (yes, while Vista was still in beta) and all further efforts
and monies were devoted solely to Windows Live Mail [AKA Windows Live
(Hot)Mail Desktop].

What you see in OE and Windows Mail now is as good as it's ever going to
get.

Judging from beta builds, Win7 [AKA Vista SP3 in some circles] will not
include any default Mail Client.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002


Pete B wrote:
blither snippage
And finally, like I said, if the email program on MS Windows is so
vulnerable, then MS should fix it so it is damage-proof, rather than just
give folks all the more reason to switch to Firefox.....


"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote in message
...
Work OE and Windows Mail newsgroups for 5-10 years then revisit that
statement, Pete.

AV scanning of incoming & outgoing mail is not necessary and it /has/
caused corruption for thousands of OE users over the years.

Pete B wrote:
blither snippage
...I never once can recall anyone who had a corrupted email
database...

Alas, your AV scanner will not catch a zero day virus. They do exist, and
you'd better know how to handle one.

Modern email clients have safety features WRT handling active content in
email. Unless you override them, you won't get bit. You can do whatever you
wish, but nothing you do changes the way things are in the real world. You
may even hang garlands of garlic cloves at your doors and windows, if you
wish to repel vampires!



Since, according to the information on the MS website, the "zero-day" virus is NOT an email virus, your warnings are not applicable to this topic. Best you direct those garland tricks to those who use Internet Explorer in general, because that is where the problem occurs:


http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec...ry/972890.mspx


".... Microsoft is investigating a privately reported vulnerability in Microsoft Video ActiveX Control. An attacker who successfully exploited this vulnerability could gain the same user rights as the local user. When using Internet Explorer, code execution is remote and may not require any user intervention.

We are aware of attacks attempting to exploit the vulnerability.

Our investigation has shown that there are no by-design uses for this ActiveX Control in Internet Explorer which includes all of the Class Identifiers within the msvidctl.dll that hosts this ActiveX Control. For Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 customers, Microsoft is recommending removing support for this ActiveX Control within Internet Explorer using all the Class Identifiers listed in the Workaround section. Though unaffected by this vulnerability, Microsoft is recommending that Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008 customers remove support for this ActiveX Control within Internet Explorer using the same Class Identifiers as a defense-in-depth measure.
........

Mitigating Factors:

.. Customers who are using Windows Vista or Windows Server 2008 are not affected because the ability to pass data to this control within Internet Explorer has been restricted.

.. By default, Internet Explorer on Windows Server 2003 and 2008 runs in a restricted mode that is known as Enhanced Security Configuration. Enhanced Security Configuration is a group of preconfigured settings in Internet Explorer that can reduce the likelihood of a user or administrator downloading and running specially crafted Web content on a server. This is a mitigating factor for Web sites that you have not added to the Internet Explorer Trusted sites zone. See also Managing Internet Explorer Enhanced Security Configuration.

.. By default, all supported versions of Microsoft Outlook and Microsoft Outlook Express open HTML e-mail messages in the Restricted sites zone. The Restricted sites zone helps mitigate attacks that could try to exploit this vulnerability by preventing Active Scripting and ActiveX controls from being used when reading HTML e-mail messages. However, if a user clicks a link in an e-mail message, the user could still be vulnerable to exploitation of this vulnerability through the Web-based attack scenario.

.. In a Web-based attack scenario, an attacker could host a Web site that contains a Web page that is used to exploit this vulnerability. In addition, compromised Web sites and Web sites that accept or host user-provided content or advertisements could contain specially crafted content that could exploit this vulnerability. In all cases, however, an attacker would have no way to force users to visit these Web sites. Instead, an attacker would have to persuade users to visit the Web site, typically by getting them to click a link in an e-mail message or Instant Messenger message that takes users to the attacker's Web site.

.. An attacker who successfully exploited this vulnerability could gain the same user rights as the local user. Users whose accounts are configured to have fewer user rights on the system could be less impacted than users who operate with administrative user rights. ..."


******************


Any user who clicks on a link in an email without knowing the safety of the target of the link deserves what they get.

BTW Kaspersky's warns a user who tries to select such a link no matter where or how, and as well, Kaspersky's would include this email link target in their list of forbidden sites as soon as they learned about the problem. Like I said, it really is not an email problem, it is just another one of the countless myriad of Internet Explorer attacks that run rampant these days. The entire root and sole cause of the problem is the malicious attacker, anyway, that is where the vigilance should be centered.

Nothing you have said justifies or even really concerns disabling scanning of emails. Furthermore, that scanning need applies to any email client, not just IEx, because this problem could happen with any client if the user was running IE. The problem is as usual in Internet Explorer, that is where the fix (and your attention) should be focused.




--
Pete B

"N. Miller" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 16:04:45 -0500, Pete B wrote:

Well, that would be true if all email viruses and malware and spam behaved
as you suggest, and if all AV programs followed your rules.

Those aren't my "rules", just observations of activity in the real world.

But me, I'd rather catch the problem **before** I opened the email.

Alas, your AV scanner will not catch a zero day virus. They do exist, and
you'd better know how to handle one.

Modern email clients have safety features WRT handling active content in
email. Unless you override them, you won't get bit. You can do whatever you
wish, but nothing you do changes the way things are in the real world. You
may even hang garlands of garlic cloves at your doors and windows, if you
wish to repel vampires!

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 09:15:23 -0500, Pete B wrote:

Alas, your AV scanner will not catch a zero day virus. They do exist, and
you'd better know how to handle one.

Modern email clients have safety features WRT handling active content in
email. Unless you override them, you won't get bit. You can do whatever you
wish, but nothing you do changes the way things are in the real world. You
may even hang garlands of garlic cloves at your doors and windows, if you
wish to repel vampires!

Since, according to the information on the MS website, the "zero-day" virus is NOT
an email virus, your warnings are not applicable to this topic.

Eh? A "zero day virus" is *ANY* virus released by the malware authors, and
picked up by a computer user *BEFORE* the user's AV vendor has definitions
for that virus. It is a brand spanking new damned virus, which will evade an
AV scanner precisely because the AV vendor has not had an example from which
to derive a definition. They damned well do exist, and you damned well will
encounter one some day.

Nothing you have said justifies or even really concerns disabling scanning of emails.

Nor has anything you said justified enabling scanning of email.

Furthermore, that scanning need applies to any email client, not just IEx ...

Eh? Since when is MSIE an email client? It is an HTTP client, i.e, a "web
browser". Nothing more, nothing less.


... because this problem could happen with any client if the user was running IE.
The problem is as usual in Internet Explorer, that is where the fix (and your
attention) should be focused.

Heh. Maybe I don't need AV scanning of email because I don't use MS Internet
Explorer as my default web browser!

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

I know that's why it is called a zero-day virus, you're the one that emphasized the term. Guess what? Day zero is past, and it is doubtful that any AV software worth its salt has not been updated of that particular danger at this point. Let me guess, though: you think that once the virus is in the AV databases, it goes away never to be seen again; yeah, right, like that'll happen.... My AV databases are updated continually, throughout each and every day my system runs, its not a "once in awhile" thing; in fact, I just checked, and five new viral sources have been added to my protection in the past five hours this morning.

And here's an astounding, absolutely mind-blowing fact that you seem totally oblivious of: NO virus or malware, of any kind or form, that has never been seen before will be detected by ANY security system in the universe, NO MATTER what the source of the attack. ALL malware is "zero-day" malware for its initial appearance; your whole line of reasoning is flawed because it is based on that fact. Again, the virus has nothing that is specific to any email function (according to the MS documentation), email is simply the delivery vehicle as with zillions of other viruses. Scanning emails detects such viruses, but most viruses come through web-based attacks that do not involve email. In any case, detecting the **source** of the attack is what matters, and Kaspersky's and other AV software programs already do that, by detecting web sources that are not certified safe to begin with, whether they are likely to be infectious or not.

There are thousands of varieties of malware that are attacking PCs every hour, all you have to do is set up a simple honey pot to see that. Attacks via emails are the second-largest type of viral malware, so to ignore that source is just plain foolish. But you go ahead and ignore the second largest source of viral attacks on the net last year. Not me, I like to catch things BEFORE they do damage, not after the damage is done.

I will say it again: NOTHING you or anyone else said in this thread justifies refraining from scanning incoming email traffic to my PC. NOTHING anyone said even applies exclusively to email attacks. ALL the concern voiced here has been about "damage to email databases" and the like, which problem can occur from any number of different PC systems and software, among which good AV software is the LEAST likely to cause such problems.

My AV software, like all good AV software these days, as well examines incoming email for other types of malicious content or activity beyond viruses, and it does an excellent job of detecting and preventing such intrusive activity; it even "learns form doing as it goes", so that it does exactly what I want, and it learns very well through an interactive process. I would not abandon that functionality ever, and certainly not because MS cannot design an internet browser that is decently well protected from viral attacks (which to be honest is not MS's fault, it is the hackers that bear the blame).

But you go ahead and sit there in your little security blanket bubble doing nothing, waiting until doomsday strikes. As for me, I am done discussing this. I know I am protected as well as I can be, that is enough for me.



--
Pete B


"N. Miller" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 09:15:23 -0500, Pete B wrote:

Alas, your AV scanner will not catch a zero day virus. They do exist, and
you'd better know how to handle one.

Modern email clients have safety features WRT handling active content in
email. Unless you override them, you won't get bit. You can do whatever you
wish, but nothing you do changes the way things are in the real world. You
may even hang garlands of garlic cloves at your doors and windows, if you
wish to repel vampires!

Since, according to the information on the MS website, the "zero-day" virus is NOT
an email virus, your warnings are not applicable to this topic.

Eh? A "zero day virus" is *ANY* virus released by the malware authors, and
picked up by a computer user *BEFORE* the user's AV vendor has definitions
for that virus. It is a brand spanking new damned virus, which will evade an
AV scanner precisely because the AV vendor has not had an example from which
to derive a definition. They damned well do exist, and you damned well will
encounter one some day.

Nothing you have said justifies or even really concerns disabling scanning of emails.

Nor has anything you said justified enabling scanning of email.

Furthermore, that scanning need applies to any email client, not just IEx ...

Eh? Since when is MSIE an email client? It is an HTTP client, i.e, a "web
browser". Nothing more, nothing less.


... because this problem could happen with any client if the user was running IE.
The problem is as usual in Internet Explorer, that is where the fix (and your
attention) should be focused.

Heh. Maybe I don't need AV scanning of email because I don't use MS Internet
Explorer as my default web browser!

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum