Outlook Express Irritating Cleanup Dialog

Any way I can change the frequency of the totally annoying "cleanup/compact" routine that OEx starts up almost every other time I close the program? Or alternatively, is there any way to stop it form asking for my input on the matter evry time, rather than just doing the damend useless task silently?


The damned dialog even pops up now when I am in the middle of using the program. Talk about Microsoft Malware, this has to be the most asinine implementation of an idea Microsoft ever dreamed up (well, except Windows 98, maybe)....


--
Pete B

If you see the prompt more often than 100 closings of OE, then you have
another issue.

The problem is with the registry counter that gives you the prompt after 100
closings of OE. It is being increased quicker than it should be and even if
you are not using OE.

There is a growing number of programs and actions that may be causing this
after installing SP3. Do you have any of the following?

IBM Rapid Access keyboard (driver) RAKDLL.DLL
Windows {Desktop} Search
Mailwasher
Nero plug-in(s)

Opening EML files while OE is closed will also contribute to the registry
count.

Various anti-virus, anti-spyware and third party firewalls, especially if
they were running when you installed SP3.

Archived thread discussing this issue in June 2008:
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...d35fbfa457fd6f

In the case of Windows Desktop Search, (the #1 offender), you have to tell
it to stop indexing OE.

Windows {Desktop} Search. Set Desktop Search Options:
http://www.microsoft.com/australia/w...h/options.mspx

In Windows {Desktop} Search: Control Panel | Indexing Options. Click: Modify
and clear the check box for Outlook Express.

In the case of Nero Scout, see Item 2.3 on page 8 here.
ftp://ftp6.nero.com/user_guides/nero...oScout_Enu.pdf

In the option to exclude selected file types from indexing, be sure to add
these file types:

..eml, .dbx & .nws
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"Pete B" wrote in message
...
Any way I can change the frequency of the totally annoying "cleanup/compact"
routine that OEx starts up almost every other time I close the program? Or
alternatively, is there any way to stop it form asking for my input on the
matter evry time, rather than just doing the damend useless task silently?


The damned dialog even pops up now when I am in the middle of using the
program. Talk about Microsoft Malware, this has to be the most asinine
implementation of an idea Microsoft ever dreamed up (well, except Windows
98, maybe)....


--
Pete B

See this June 2008 discussion about this WinXP SP3-specific problem:
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...d35fbfa457fd6f

For reference, here's a current list of items known to cause this behavior
(which is NOT being seen by the vast majority of OE users) in "most often
seen" order

. Nero plug-in(s) including Nero Scout*;
. Windows (Desktop) Search is installed
[FIX: Uninstall the application or CONTROL PANEL | INDEXING OPTIONS |
MODIFY | Clear the check box for Outlook Express files (i.e., EML, NWS, &
DBX files)];
. IBM Rapid Access keyboard (driver) RAKDLL.DLL;
. Various & sundry anti-virus applications (including Norton);
. Various & sundry anti-spyware applications;
. Various & sundry third-party firewalls;
. Any/all of the above running when WinXP SP3 was installed;
. Disk defragmentation, need for;
. Using Visual Basic DoCmd.SendObject command to create an email;
. Using any number third-party applications (e.g., accounting software;
FileMaker 6) to send emails by via Outlook Express;
. MailWasher; and/or
. Programatically opening EML files while OE is closed (e.g., creating a
New Message via Address Book).

Please note that OE itself can issue this prompt but only when you close it.
Adhere to all of the following and you should never see the Automatic
Compact prompt (coming from OE) again:

- Don't use Inbox or Sent Items to archive messages. Move them to local
folders created for this purpose.

- Empty Deleted Items folder daily.

- Frequently perform a manual compact of all OE folders while "working
offline". More at http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm

- Do not cancel Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt to
close OE via Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic Compacting
is taking place.

- Disable email scanning by your anti-virus application. It can cause
corruption (i.e., loss of messages) and provides no additional protection:

Why you don't need your anti-virus to scan your email
http://thundercloud.net/infoave/tuto...ning/index.htm

===============
*IN RE Nero Scout, see Item 2.3 on page 8 he
ftp://ftp6.nero.com/user_guides/nero...oScout_Enu.pdf

Also see http://www.nero.com/eng/support-faq.html?s=sub&t=Scout
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002


Pete B wrote:
Any way I can change the frequency of the totally annoying
"cleanup/compact" routine that OEx starts up almost every other time I
close the program? Or alternatively, is there any way to stop it form
asking for my input on the matter evry time, rather than just doing the
damend useless task silently?


The damned dialog even pops up now when I am in the middle of using the
program. Talk about Microsoft Malware, this has to be the most asinine
implementation of an idea Microsoft ever dreamed up (well, except Windows
98, maybe)....

Wow! A lot of info from you and Bruce both, thanks.

I assume that you are talking about Nero plugins in IE, as I do not see any such function in OEx. In any case, I do not have any such plugins.

Thanks to you guys, I just found out I actually had Windows Live Search, I never even knew it was there (tells you how often I use that function). If as you say I can remove it, color it gone as soon as I finish posting this :=). If for nothing else than, how stupid can you get to design a program like that where you have to enter filenames and cannot even do it with Copy/Paste?

Let me ask you: I have been trying to shut off indexing for months, short of going into MSCONFIG and disabling startup of indexing services. If I get rid of Win Livwe Search will that elimeinate all the indexing that suddenly started running on my PC? I have used the MMC and everythiong else I can find and have not been able to get Indexing to not run. Yes, I did have WLS indexing ermails, not anymore.... Anything else I can do to totally eliminate indexing? Will removing WLS get rid of all that stuff in the CPL app e.g. file types indexing etc as well as the emails?

I disagree with that article on email scanning most emphatically. Maybe that goes for MS's av software, but my AV, Kaspersky's, and my previous, AVG, do scans for a lot more than just viruses, it scans for spam and malware too. I think the guy is wrong to advise not using email scanning. I have also seen Kaspersky's pick up infected attachments to emails which are actually one of the the most common way viruses spread. So no way am I disabling it. If that advice is what MS says is proper, they need to fix OEx, not put my PC in danger. MS has the problem, not the AV software. I want my AV software scanning EVERYTHING, not just what MS says it can handle.

I do have WinXP SP3, and I do believe this all started about when I installed the SP3. So that makes sense. It happens when closing OEx or even when it is still running and it happens about every other day; I use OEx maybe half dozen times a day max. I do move the emails, empty deleted etc but it seldom seemed to make any difference for this issue.

I will see if what you listed makes my problems go away or at least get tolerable. I still think this should be a silent operation thing; I don't mind the indexing itself, what I hate is being asked for approval every time; there shopuld be an option to make it happen unattended. Just do it, for gods sake..... :=)


Thanks to you and Bruce (so far).....



--
Pete B



"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote in message ...
See this June 2008 discussion about this WinXP SP3-specific problem:
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...d35fbfa457fd6f

For reference, here's a current list of items known to cause this behavior
(which is NOT being seen by the vast majority of OE users) in "most often
seen" order

. Nero plug-in(s) including Nero Scout*;
. Windows (Desktop) Search is installed
[FIX: Uninstall the application or CONTROL PANEL | INDEXING OPTIONS |
MODIFY | Clear the check box for Outlook Express files (i.e., EML, NWS, &
DBX files)];
. IBM Rapid Access keyboard (driver) RAKDLL.DLL;
. Various & sundry anti-virus applications (including Norton);
. Various & sundry anti-spyware applications;
. Various & sundry third-party firewalls;
. Any/all of the above running when WinXP SP3 was installed;
. Disk defragmentation, need for;
. Using Visual Basic DoCmd.SendObject command to create an email;
. Using any number third-party applications (e.g., accounting software;
FileMaker 6) to send emails by via Outlook Express;
. MailWasher; and/or
. Programatically opening EML files while OE is closed (e.g., creating a
New Message via Address Book).

Please note that OE itself can issue this prompt but only when you close it.
Adhere to all of the following and you should never see the Automatic
Compact prompt (coming from OE) again:

- Don't use Inbox or Sent Items to archive messages. Move them to local
folders created for this purpose.

- Empty Deleted Items folder daily.

- Frequently perform a manual compact of all OE folders while "working
offline". More at http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm

- Do not cancel Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt to
close OE via Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic Compacting
is taking place.

- Disable email scanning by your anti-virus application. It can cause
corruption (i.e., loss of messages) and provides no additional protection:

Why you don't need your anti-virus to scan your email
http://thundercloud.net/infoave/tuto...ning/index.htm

===============
*IN RE Nero Scout, see Item 2.3 on page 8 he
ftp://ftp6.nero.com/user_guides/nero...oScout_Enu.pdf

Also see http://www.nero.com/eng/support-faq.html?s=sub&t=Scout
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002


Pete B wrote:
Any way I can change the frequency of the totally annoying
"cleanup/compact" routine that OEx starts up almost every other time I
close the program? Or alternatively, is there any way to stop it form
asking for my input on the matter evry time, rather than just doing the
damend useless task silently?


The damned dialog even pops up now when I am in the middle of using the
program. Talk about Microsoft Malware, this has to be the most asinine
implementation of an idea Microsoft ever dreamed up (well, except Windows
98, maybe)....

OK guys, before I do something stupid, let me ask a stupid question: how do I remove Windows Live Search? Is that the Windows Search 4.0 app I see listed in the A/R window installed programs list? I opened WLS itself and checked the About but naturally it is useless.... I do not actually see anything named Windows Live Search anywhere that I can remove.


--
Pete B



"Pete B" wrote in message ...
Wow! A lot of info from you and Bruce both, thanks.

I assume that you are talking about Nero plugins in IE, as I do not see any such function in OEx. In any case, I do not have any such plugins.

Thanks to you guys, I just found out I actually had Windows Live Search, I never even knew it was there (tells you how often I use that function). If as you say I can remove it, color it gone as soon as I finish posting this :=). If for nothing else than, how stupid can you get to design a program like that where you have to enter filenames and cannot even do it with Copy/Paste?

Let me ask you: I have been trying to shut off indexing for months, short of going into MSCONFIG and disabling startup of indexing services. If I get rid of Win Livwe Search will that elimeinate all the indexing that suddenly started running on my PC? I have used the MMC and everythiong else I can find and have not been able to get Indexing to not run. Yes, I did have WLS indexing ermails, not anymore.... Anything else I can do to totally eliminate indexing? Will removing WLS get rid of all that stuff in the CPL app e.g. file types indexing etc as well as the emails?

I disagree with that article on email scanning most emphatically. Maybe that goes for MS's av software, but my AV, Kaspersky's, and my previous, AVG, do scans for a lot more than just viruses, it scans for spam and malware too. I think the guy is wrong to advise not using email scanning. I have also seen Kaspersky's pick up infected attachments to emails which are actually one of the the most common way viruses spread. So no way am I disabling it. If that advice is what MS says is proper, they need to fix OEx, not put my PC in danger. MS has the problem, not the AV software. I want my AV software scanning EVERYTHING, not just what MS says it can handle.

I do have WinXP SP3, and I do believe this all started about when I installed the SP3. So that makes sense. It happens when closing OEx or even when it is still running and it happens about every other day; I use OEx maybe half dozen times a day max. I do move the emails, empty deleted etc but it seldom seemed to make any difference for this issue.

I will see if what you listed makes my problems go away or at least get tolerable. I still think this should be a silent operation thing; I don't mind the indexing itself, what I hate is being asked for approval every time; there shopuld be an option to make it happen unattended. Just do it, for gods sake..... :=)


Thanks to you and Bruce (so far).....



--
Pete B



"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote in message ...
See this June 2008 discussion about this WinXP SP3-specific problem:
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...d35fbfa457fd6f

For reference, here's a current list of items known to cause this behavior
(which is NOT being seen by the vast majority of OE users) in "most often
seen" order

. Nero plug-in(s) including Nero Scout*;
. Windows (Desktop) Search is installed
[FIX: Uninstall the application or CONTROL PANEL | INDEXING OPTIONS |
MODIFY | Clear the check box for Outlook Express files (i.e., EML, NWS, &
DBX files)];
. IBM Rapid Access keyboard (driver) RAKDLL.DLL;
. Various & sundry anti-virus applications (including Norton);
. Various & sundry anti-spyware applications;
. Various & sundry third-party firewalls;
. Any/all of the above running when WinXP SP3 was installed;
. Disk defragmentation, need for;
. Using Visual Basic DoCmd.SendObject command to create an email;
. Using any number third-party applications (e.g., accounting software;
FileMaker 6) to send emails by via Outlook Express;
. MailWasher; and/or
. Programatically opening EML files while OE is closed (e.g., creating a
New Message via Address Book).

Please note that OE itself can issue this prompt but only when you close it.
Adhere to all of the following and you should never see the Automatic
Compact prompt (coming from OE) again:

- Don't use Inbox or Sent Items to archive messages. Move them to local
folders created for this purpose.

- Empty Deleted Items folder daily.

- Frequently perform a manual compact of all OE folders while "working
offline". More at http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm

- Do not cancel Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt to
close OE via Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic Compacting
is taking place.

- Disable email scanning by your anti-virus application. It can cause
corruption (i.e., loss of messages) and provides no additional protection:

Why you don't need your anti-virus to scan your email
http://thundercloud.net/infoave/tuto...ning/index.htm

===============
*IN RE Nero Scout, see Item 2.3 on page 8 he
ftp://ftp6.nero.com/user_guides/nero...oScout_Enu.pdf

Also see http://www.nero.com/eng/support-faq.html?s=sub&t=Scout
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002


Pete B wrote:
Any way I can change the frequency of the totally annoying
"cleanup/compact" routine that OEx starts up almost every other time I
close the program? Or alternatively, is there any way to stop it form
asking for my input on the matter evry time, rather than just doing the
damend useless task silently?


The damned dialog even pops up now when I am in the middle of using the
program. Talk about Microsoft Malware, this has to be the most asinine
implementation of an idea Microsoft ever dreamed up (well, except Windows
98, maybe)....

It is Windows Search 4.0. I don't believe either myself or PA Bear mentioned
"Live".
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"Pete B" wrote in message
...
OK guys, before I do something stupid, let me ask a stupid question: how do
I remove Windows Live Search? Is that the Windows Search 4.0 app I see
listed in the A/R window installed programs list? I opened WLS itself and
checked the About but naturally it is useless.... I do not actually see
anything named Windows Live Search anywhere that I can remove.


--
Pete B



"Pete B" wrote in message
...
Wow! A lot of info from you and Bruce both, thanks.

I assume that you are talking about Nero plugins in IE, as I do not see any
such function in OEx. In any case, I do not have any such plugins.

Thanks to you guys, I just found out I actually had Windows Live Search, I
never even knew it was there (tells you how often I use that function). If
as you say I can remove it, color it gone as soon as I finish posting this
:=). If for nothing else than, how stupid can you get to design a program
like that where you have to enter filenames and cannot even do it with
Copy/Paste?

Let me ask you: I have been trying to shut off indexing for months, short
of going into MSCONFIG and disabling startup of indexing services. If I get
rid of Win Livwe Search will that elimeinate all the indexing that suddenly
started running on my PC? I have used the MMC and everythiong else I can
find and have not been able to get Indexing to not run. Yes, I did have WLS
indexing ermails, not anymore.... Anything else I can do to totally
eliminate indexing? Will removing WLS get rid of all that stuff in the CPL
app e.g. file types indexing etc as well as the emails?

I disagree with that article on email scanning most emphatically. Maybe
that goes for MS's av software, but my AV, Kaspersky's, and my previous,
AVG, do scans for a lot more than just viruses, it scans for spam and
malware too. I think the guy is wrong to advise not using email scanning.
I have also seen Kaspersky's pick up infected attachments to emails which
are actually one of the the most common way viruses spread. So no way am I
disabling it. If that advice is what MS says is proper, they need to fix
OEx, not put my PC in danger. MS has the problem, not the AV software. I
want my AV software scanning EVERYTHING, not just what MS says it can
handle.

I do have WinXP SP3, and I do believe this all started about when I
installed the SP3. So that makes sense. It happens when closing OEx or
even when it is still running and it happens about every other day; I use
OEx maybe half dozen times a day max. I do move the emails, empty deleted
etc but it seldom seemed to make any difference for this issue.

I will see if what you listed makes my problems go away or at least get
tolerable. I still think this should be a silent operation thing; I don't
mind the indexing itself, what I hate is being asked for approval every
time; there shopuld be an option to make it happen unattended. Just do it,
for gods sake..... :=)


Thanks to you and Bruce (so far).....



--
Pete B



"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote in message
...
See this June 2008 discussion about this WinXP SP3-specific problem:
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...d35fbfa457fd6f

For reference, here's a current list of items known to cause this behavior
(which is NOT being seen by the vast majority of OE users) in "most often
seen" order

. Nero plug-in(s) including Nero Scout*;
. Windows (Desktop) Search is installed
[FIX: Uninstall the application or CONTROL PANEL | INDEXING OPTIONS |
MODIFY | Clear the check box for Outlook Express files (i.e., EML, NWS, &
DBX files)];
. IBM Rapid Access keyboard (driver) RAKDLL.DLL;
. Various & sundry anti-virus applications (including Norton);
. Various & sundry anti-spyware applications;
. Various & sundry third-party firewalls;
. Any/all of the above running when WinXP SP3 was installed;
. Disk defragmentation, need for;
. Using Visual Basic DoCmd.SendObject command to create an email;
. Using any number third-party applications (e.g., accounting software;
FileMaker 6) to send emails by via Outlook Express;
. MailWasher; and/or
. Programatically opening EML files while OE is closed (e.g., creating a
New Message via Address Book).

Please note that OE itself can issue this prompt but only when you close
it.
Adhere to all of the following and you should never see the Automatic
Compact prompt (coming from OE) again:

- Don't use Inbox or Sent Items to archive messages. Move them to local
folders created for this purpose.

- Empty Deleted Items folder daily.

- Frequently perform a manual compact of all OE folders while "working
offline". More at http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm

- Do not cancel Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt
to
close OE via Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic Compacting
is taking place.

- Disable email scanning by your anti-virus application. It can cause
corruption (i.e., loss of messages) and provides no additional protection:

Why you don't need your anti-virus to scan your email
http://thundercloud.net/infoave/tuto...ning/index.htm

===============
*IN RE Nero Scout, see Item 2.3 on page 8 he
ftp://ftp6.nero.com/user_guides/nero...oScout_Enu.pdf

Also see http://www.nero.com/eng/support-faq.html?s=sub&t=Scout
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002


Pete B wrote:
Any way I can change the frequency of the totally annoying
"cleanup/compact" routine that OEx starts up almost every other time I
close the program? Or alternatively, is there any way to stop it form
asking for my input on the matter evry time, rather than just doing the
damend useless task silently?


The damned dialog even pops up now when I am in the middle of using the
program. Talk about Microsoft Malware, this has to be the most asinine
implementation of an idea Microsoft ever dreamed up (well, except Windows
98, maybe)....

On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 12:43:13 -0500, Pete B wrote:

I disagree with that article on email scanning most emphatically. Maybe
that goes for MS's av software, but my AV, Kaspersky's, and my previous,
AVG, do scans for a lot more than just viruses, it scans for spam and
malware too. I think the guy is wrong to advise not using email scanning
. I have also seen Kaspersky's pick up infected attachments to emails
which are actually one of the the most common way viruses spread. So no
way am I disabling it. If that advice is what MS says is proper, they
need to fix OEx, not put my PC in danger. MS has the problem, not the AV
software. I want my AV software scanning EVERYTHING, not just what MS
says it can handle.

First, MSOE is no longer under development, so even those problems which I
agree that it has aren't going to be fixed.

Second, email scanning works by interposing the scanner as a 'proxy' between
the email client and the email server. I've found that kind of kludge can be
problematic with clients other than MSOE.

Third, I had a malicious attachment which was not caught by an AV scan
because the malware was too new for the current AV definitions (back when I
allowed AV to scan email). Malware can't install itself, it has to be
actively run. A good email client will not run certain potentially hazardous
attached files (Pegasus Mail has a long list of files prohibited from
execution). The only way to get infected is to open the attachment; and your
memory resident "on access" scanner will bark, if you even just try to save
the malicious attachment to disk (and it has definitions for the file). In
my case, I submitted the suspicious attachment to one of the AV vendors, and
they provided a link to an updated definition file within fifteen minutes.

So, in my estimation, email scanning does nothing more useful than the basic
AV scanner is doing without it, and does so at some risk of corrupting the
message store; especially one as delicate as MSOE has. And email scanning
will not catch a zero day virus any more than an ordinary AV scan will.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

No you did not mention that name. I do not recall where I saw the term, maybe in the Help file or something. But OK that is what I will remove. Will that stop all the indexing as well?


--
Pete B


"Bruce Hagen" wrote in message ...
It is Windows Search 4.0. I don't believe either myself or PA Bear mentioned
"Live".
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"Pete B" wrote in message
...
OK guys, before I do something stupid, let me ask a stupid question: how do
I remove Windows Live Search? Is that the Windows Search 4.0 app I see
listed in the A/R window installed programs list? I opened WLS itself and
checked the About but naturally it is useless.... I do not actually see
anything named Windows Live Search anywhere that I can remove.


--
Pete B



"Pete B" wrote in message
...
Wow! A lot of info from you and Bruce both, thanks.

I assume that you are talking about Nero plugins in IE, as I do not see any
such function in OEx. In any case, I do not have any such plugins.

Thanks to you guys, I just found out I actually had Windows Live Search, I
never even knew it was there (tells you how often I use that function). If
as you say I can remove it, color it gone as soon as I finish posting this
:=). If for nothing else than, how stupid can you get to design a program
like that where you have to enter filenames and cannot even do it with
Copy/Paste?

Let me ask you: I have been trying to shut off indexing for months, short
of going into MSCONFIG and disabling startup of indexing services. If I get
rid of Win Livwe Search will that elimeinate all the indexing that suddenly
started running on my PC? I have used the MMC and everythiong else I can
find and have not been able to get Indexing to not run. Yes, I did have WLS
indexing ermails, not anymore.... Anything else I can do to totally
eliminate indexing? Will removing WLS get rid of all that stuff in the CPL
app e.g. file types indexing etc as well as the emails?

I disagree with that article on email scanning most emphatically. Maybe
that goes for MS's av software, but my AV, Kaspersky's, and my previous,
AVG, do scans for a lot more than just viruses, it scans for spam and
malware too. I think the guy is wrong to advise not using email scanning.
I have also seen Kaspersky's pick up infected attachments to emails which
are actually one of the the most common way viruses spread. So no way am I
disabling it. If that advice is what MS says is proper, they need to fix
OEx, not put my PC in danger. MS has the problem, not the AV software. I
want my AV software scanning EVERYTHING, not just what MS says it can
handle.

I do have WinXP SP3, and I do believe this all started about when I
installed the SP3. So that makes sense. It happens when closing OEx or
even when it is still running and it happens about every other day; I use
OEx maybe half dozen times a day max. I do move the emails, empty deleted
etc but it seldom seemed to make any difference for this issue.

I will see if what you listed makes my problems go away or at least get
tolerable. I still think this should be a silent operation thing; I don't
mind the indexing itself, what I hate is being asked for approval every
time; there shopuld be an option to make it happen unattended. Just do it,
for gods sake..... :=)


Thanks to you and Bruce (so far).....



--
Pete B



"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote in message
...
See this June 2008 discussion about this WinXP SP3-specific problem:
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...d35fbfa457fd6f

For reference, here's a current list of items known to cause this behavior
(which is NOT being seen by the vast majority of OE users) in "most often
seen" order

. Nero plug-in(s) including Nero Scout*;
. Windows (Desktop) Search is installed
[FIX: Uninstall the application or CONTROL PANEL | INDEXING OPTIONS |
MODIFY | Clear the check box for Outlook Express files (i.e., EML, NWS, &
DBX files)];
. IBM Rapid Access keyboard (driver) RAKDLL.DLL;
. Various & sundry anti-virus applications (including Norton);
. Various & sundry anti-spyware applications;
. Various & sundry third-party firewalls;
. Any/all of the above running when WinXP SP3 was installed;
. Disk defragmentation, need for;
. Using Visual Basic DoCmd.SendObject command to create an email;
. Using any number third-party applications (e.g., accounting software;
FileMaker 6) to send emails by via Outlook Express;
. MailWasher; and/or
. Programatically opening EML files while OE is closed (e.g., creating a
New Message via Address Book).

Please note that OE itself can issue this prompt but only when you close
it.
Adhere to all of the following and you should never see the Automatic
Compact prompt (coming from OE) again:

- Don't use Inbox or Sent Items to archive messages. Move them to local
folders created for this purpose.

- Empty Deleted Items folder daily.

- Frequently perform a manual compact of all OE folders while "working
offline". More at http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm

- Do not cancel Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt
to
close OE via Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic Compacting
is taking place.

- Disable email scanning by your anti-virus application. It can cause
corruption (i.e., loss of messages) and provides no additional protection:

Why you don't need your anti-virus to scan your email
http://thundercloud.net/infoave/tuto...ning/index.htm

===============
*IN RE Nero Scout, see Item 2.3 on page 8 he
ftp://ftp6.nero.com/user_guides/nero...oScout_Enu.pdf

Also see http://www.nero.com/eng/support-faq.html?s=sub&t=Scout
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002


Pete B wrote:
Any way I can change the frequency of the totally annoying
"cleanup/compact" routine that OEx starts up almost every other time I
close the program? Or alternatively, is there any way to stop it form
asking for my input on the matter evry time, rather than just doing the
damend useless task silently?


The damned dialog even pops up now when I am in the middle of using the
program. Talk about Microsoft Malware, this has to be the most asinine
implementation of an idea Microsoft ever dreamed up (well, except Windows
98, maybe)....

It will stop the indexing of OE by that program and it /should/ resolve your
issue.
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"Pete B" wrote in message
...
No you did not mention that name. I do not recall where I saw the term,
maybe in the Help file or something. But OK that is what I will remove.
Will that stop all the indexing as well?


--
Pete B


"Bruce Hagen" wrote in message
...
It is Windows Search 4.0. I don't believe either myself or PA Bear
mentioned
"Live".
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA


"Pete B" wrote in message
...
OK guys, before I do something stupid, let me ask a stupid question: how
do
I remove Windows Live Search? Is that the Windows Search 4.0 app I see
listed in the A/R window installed programs list? I opened WLS itself and
checked the About but naturally it is useless.... I do not actually see
anything named Windows Live Search anywhere that I can remove.


--
Pete B



"Pete B" wrote in message
...
Wow! A lot of info from you and Bruce both, thanks.

I assume that you are talking about Nero plugins in IE, as I do not see
any
such function in OEx. In any case, I do not have any such plugins.

Thanks to you guys, I just found out I actually had Windows Live Search, I
never even knew it was there (tells you how often I use that function).
If
as you say I can remove it, color it gone as soon as I finish posting this
:=). If for nothing else than, how stupid can you get to design a program
like that where you have to enter filenames and cannot even do it with
Copy/Paste?

Let me ask you: I have been trying to shut off indexing for months, short
of going into MSCONFIG and disabling startup of indexing services. If I
get
rid of Win Livwe Search will that elimeinate all the indexing that
suddenly
started running on my PC? I have used the MMC and everythiong else I can
find and have not been able to get Indexing to not run. Yes, I did have
WLS
indexing ermails, not anymore.... Anything else I can do to totally
eliminate indexing? Will removing WLS get rid of all that stuff in the
CPL
app e.g. file types indexing etc as well as the emails?

I disagree with that article on email scanning most emphatically. Maybe
that goes for MS's av software, but my AV, Kaspersky's, and my previous,
AVG, do scans for a lot more than just viruses, it scans for spam and
malware too. I think the guy is wrong to advise not using email scanning.
I have also seen Kaspersky's pick up infected attachments to emails which
are actually one of the the most common way viruses spread. So no way am
I
disabling it. If that advice is what MS says is proper, they need to fix
OEx, not put my PC in danger. MS has the problem, not the AV software. I
want my AV software scanning EVERYTHING, not just what MS says it can
handle.

I do have WinXP SP3, and I do believe this all started about when I
installed the SP3. So that makes sense. It happens when closing OEx or
even when it is still running and it happens about every other day; I use
OEx maybe half dozen times a day max. I do move the emails, empty deleted
etc but it seldom seemed to make any difference for this issue.

I will see if what you listed makes my problems go away or at least get
tolerable. I still think this should be a silent operation thing; I
don't
mind the indexing itself, what I hate is being asked for approval every
time; there shopuld be an option to make it happen unattended. Just do
it,
for gods sake..... :=)


Thanks to you and Bruce (so far).....



--
Pete B



"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote in message
...
See this June 2008 discussion about this WinXP SP3-specific problem:
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...d35fbfa457fd6f

For reference, here's a current list of items known to cause this
behavior
(which is NOT being seen by the vast majority of OE users) in "most often
seen" order

. Nero plug-in(s) including Nero Scout*;
. Windows (Desktop) Search is installed
[FIX: Uninstall the application or CONTROL PANEL | INDEXING OPTIONS |
MODIFY | Clear the check box for Outlook Express files (i.e., EML, NWS, &
DBX files)];
. IBM Rapid Access keyboard (driver) RAKDLL.DLL;
. Various & sundry anti-virus applications (including Norton);
. Various & sundry anti-spyware applications;
. Various & sundry third-party firewalls;
. Any/all of the above running when WinXP SP3 was installed;
. Disk defragmentation, need for;
. Using Visual Basic DoCmd.SendObject command to create an email;
. Using any number third-party applications (e.g., accounting software;
FileMaker 6) to send emails by via Outlook Express;
. MailWasher; and/or
. Programatically opening EML files while OE is closed (e.g., creating a
New Message via Address Book).

Please note that OE itself can issue this prompt but only when you close
it.
Adhere to all of the following and you should never see the Automatic
Compact prompt (coming from OE) again:

- Don't use Inbox or Sent Items to archive messages. Move them to local
folders created for this purpose.

- Empty Deleted Items folder daily.

- Frequently perform a manual compact of all OE folders while "working
offline". More at http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm

- Do not cancel Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt
to
close OE via Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic
Compacting
is taking place.

- Disable email scanning by your anti-virus application. It can cause
corruption (i.e., loss of messages) and provides no additional
protection:

Why you don't need your anti-virus to scan your email
http://thundercloud.net/infoave/tuto...ning/index.htm

===============
*IN RE Nero Scout, see Item 2.3 on page 8 he
ftp://ftp6.nero.com/user_guides/nero...oScout_Enu.pdf

Also see http://www.nero.com/eng/support-faq.html?s=sub&t=Scout
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002


Pete B wrote:
Any way I can change the frequency of the totally annoying
"cleanup/compact" routine that OEx starts up almost every other time I
close the program? Or alternatively, is there any way to stop it form
asking for my input on the matter evry time, rather than just doing the
damend useless task silently?


The damned dialog even pops up now when I am in the middle of using the
program. Talk about Microsoft Malware, this has to be the most asinine
implementation of an idea Microsoft ever dreamed up (well, except
Windows
98, maybe)....

Well, that would be true if all email viruses and malware and spam behaved as you suggest, and if all AV programs followed your rules. But me, I'd rather catch the problem **before** I opened the email. And nowadays, many if not most emails are loaded with active content anyway, and many of those do not need you to do anything except open the email (ever get a "happy birthday" email, or an email with embedded graphics or the like?). Once emails started using the HTML stuff, running active content became simple for even an amateur hacker: infect a PC silently with a TH, then send the user an email on a certain date to start your DOS attack.

Nope, I don't buy that philosophy at all. Furthermore, I have been using MS email since the days of Win 3, and during all my years of working at a firm with 10K+ employees using the same, and in contact throughout my career with other such large firms, and as a programmer who designed and put into use many different apps that used VBA to manipulate email by composing, altering, sending, receiving, and forwarding thousands of emails from under control of automation from within other applications all without any user input, I never once can recall anyone who had a corrupted email database... ever. Not from any source at all, EXCEPT from a deliberate virus attack or from a damaged HDD, and even those could usually be recovered to a great extent.

I have never even heard of ANYONE who had such a problem, including my non-computer-literate acquaintances who barely know how to turn a PC on. But I don't doubt for one second that somebody AT MICROSOFT was able to screw things up that way; they have lots of practice.....

Like I said, if the email client is such a vulnerable pathetic program, then the solution is to fix the email clinet, not to tell everyone to refrain from doing things that are universally practiced throughout the software world. And even though OEx is history, the email function is still here like always, including the message db. So the advice is still not justified IMO.

The one thing I do fully agree with is not using **anything** with Norton's name on it, that company puts out poison that totally hijacks a system and seldom does its work without screwing up.

--
Pete B


"N. Miller" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 12:43:13 -0500, Pete B wrote:

I disagree with that article on email scanning most emphatically. Maybe
that goes for MS's av software, but my AV, Kaspersky's, and my previous,
AVG, do scans for a lot more than just viruses, it scans for spam and
malware too. I think the guy is wrong to advise not using email scanning
. I have also seen Kaspersky's pick up infected attachments to emails
which are actually one of the the most common way viruses spread. So no
way am I disabling it. If that advice is what MS says is proper, they
need to fix OEx, not put my PC in danger. MS has the problem, not the AV
software. I want my AV software scanning EVERYTHING, not just what MS
says it can handle.

First, MSOE is no longer under development, so even those problems which I
agree that it has aren't going to be fixed.

Second, email scanning works by interposing the scanner as a 'proxy' between
the email client and the email server. I've found that kind of kludge can be
problematic with clients other than MSOE.

Third, I had a malicious attachment which was not caught by an AV scan
because the malware was too new for the current AV definitions (back when I
allowed AV to scan email). Malware can't install itself, it has to be
actively run. A good email client will not run certain potentially hazardous
attached files (Pegasus Mail has a long list of files prohibited from
execution). The only way to get infected is to open the attachment; and your
memory resident "on access" scanner will bark, if you even just try to save
the malicious attachment to disk (and it has definitions for the file). In
my case, I submitted the suspicious attachment to one of the AV vendors, and
they provided a link to an updated definition file within fifteen minutes.

So, in my estimation, email scanning does nothing more useful than the basic
AV scanner is doing without it, and does so at some risk of corrupting the
message store; especially one as delicate as MSOE has. And email scanning
will not catch a zero day virus any more than an ordinary AV scan will.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum