OE Is Deleting My NG Headers

Ron

You're splitting hairs and wrong in the cases that Bruce has picked up
on.


--



Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ron Sommer wrote:
When OE opens, it checks the count. If the count is 100, the
compaction message will appear when you close OE.
There is no automatic compaction, because the user has to ok the
compaction. The count changes on the opening of OE.
The compaction message will not appear until the 101st close of OE.

"Gerry" wrote in message
...
Neil

On closing Outlook Express 100 times. On some systems something
changes the counter in the Registry when it is not intended so
automatic compacting can be triggered quite a bit earlier. The
counter is meant to increment by one on closure but something else
cause the counter to increment at other times. Bruce Hagen writes
about this regularly. It doesn't happen here.

--



Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Neil wrote:
"Gerry" wrote in message
...
Robert

Also, what's the point of having a "Delete news messages X days
after being downloaded" if OE is just going to delete them
anyway, regardless of the setting. Again, doesn't make sense.


Makes perfect sense if someone only wants to keep a weeks worth
of posts in his cache instead of a much larger number that the
server might support.

Your comment is correct . It was logical. It was also part of one
of the most disastrous and problematic features of Outlook Express.
Compacting. Checking this feature was blamed for countless losses
of messages. Automatic compacting was abandoned by users in favour
of manual compacting Offline. The changes made to automatic
compacting not so long ago improved the situation but did not
totally resolve the problem. Manual compacting before automatic
compacting is triggered remains the safest option. The option to
"Delete news messages X days after being downloaded" should have
been removed when the other changes were made.


When does automatic compacting take place?

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:47:43 -0600, Neil wrote:

"NormanM" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:09:56 -0600, Neil wrote:

"Steve Cochran" wrote in message
...

It never made sense and its been a problem since OE4. It won't be
fixed, so if you wish to keep NG messages, you have to copy them to
local folders. That is the only way. People complained about this
for many years and MS just ignored them.

And MS wonders why they're sinking faster than the titanic while Google
acquires their empire (apologies for the mixed metaphor; but maybe in
this case a mixed metaphor is fitting, given the absolutely absurd state
of the software).

Very mixed up. Google does not publish software. Microsoft is only losing
on the web search front.

Really? What year are you living in? Google has Google Docs to compete with
Word, Google Spreadsheet to compete with Excel, Google Calendar to compete
with Outlook, and Gmail to compete with Outlook, and they are providing
functionality to use all of those OFFLINE.

Sorry. My fingers typed other than my intentions. Google does not publish an
Operating System; which is the core business of Microsoft.

I do not use Word, Excel, or Outlook. I use OpenOffice and Pegasus Mail;
neither Google, nor Microsoft.

Furthermore, Google came out with their own browser, Chrome, which not only
competes with Internet Explorer ...

I don't use Chrome. I use Opera, which is neither Google, nor Microsoft.

... but is designed from the ground up specifically for running web apps (i.e.,
once it matures it will probably be a full-fledged operating system, replacing
Windows, just as Windows once supplemented but then eventually replaced DOS).

Until Chrome installs directly on the HDD, and interacts with the hardware
drivers, so you won't need Windows, Chrome will just remain an application
which runs under Windows.

All of these are in their infancy, and their maturity is many years away.
But Microsoft sees the writing on the wall. It's not about Internet search;
it's about a paradigm shift away from desktop apps to web-based apps. And
Google is far ahead of Microsoft in the battle.

The year is 2009. Keep up with what's going on.

I am not really interested in web-based OSes. Those would require an always
on Internet connection. In the event that my Internet connection dies (and
it happens about once a month, whether I like it, or not), my web-based OS
would be useless; my computer nothing more than an expensive doorstop. I'll
stick to a disk-based OS, thank you.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

I see that you are not using a version of OE that has automatic compaction.
Earlier versions did have automatic compaction and the message store could
become corrupted when the computer was shutdown when OE was compacting. The
compaction message was added so that the compaction would not occur unless
the user clicks OK.

I do not see anywhere in my post that says that OE is the only program that
increases the Compact Check Count. I just commented on the way that OE used
the Compact Check Count.

Yes, some people have received the Compact message without even using OE or
opening OE 100 times. This still causes the compaction message that must
be clicked for the compaction to occur and does not cause an automatic
compaction.
--
Ronald Sommer

"Gerry" wrote in message
...
Ron

You're splitting hairs and wrong in the cases that Bruce has picked up on.


--



Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ron Sommer wrote:
When OE opens, it checks the count. If the count is 100, the
compaction message will appear when you close OE.
There is no automatic compaction, because the user has to ok the
compaction. The count changes on the opening of OE.
The compaction message will not appear until the 101st close of OE.

"Gerry" wrote in message
...
Neil

On closing Outlook Express 100 times. On some systems something
changes the counter in the Registry when it is not intended so
automatic compacting can be triggered quite a bit earlier. The
counter is meant to increment by one on closure but something else
cause the counter to increment at other times. Bruce Hagen writes
about this regularly. It doesn't happen here.

--



Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Neil wrote:
"Gerry" wrote in message
...
Robert

Also, what's the point of having a "Delete news messages X days
after being downloaded" if OE is just going to delete them
anyway, regardless of the setting. Again, doesn't make sense.


Makes perfect sense if someone only wants to keep a weeks worth
of posts in his cache instead of a much larger number that the
server might support.

Your comment is correct . It was logical. It was also part of one
of the most disastrous and problematic features of Outlook Express.
Compacting. Checking this feature was blamed for countless losses
of messages. Automatic compacting was abandoned by users in favour
of manual compacting Offline. The changes made to automatic
compacting not so long ago improved the situation but did not
totally resolve the problem. Manual compacting before automatic
compacting is triggered remains the safest option. The option to
"Delete news messages X days after being downloaded" should have
been removed when the other changes were made.


When does automatic compacting take place?

But you really are playing devil's advocate here, aren't you? This
discussion's becoming a waste of time.

No, you're growing bored in not getting the answers that you want. OE
isn't going to change. You're the one beating the dead horse expecting
its behavior to change.

My word, you just won't stop, will you? Do you have some psychotic
compulsion to be right? Sheesh.

Where did I say I expected OE's behavior to change? Is that just what you
want to believe so you can keep going on and on about how it's not going to
change? Pathetic.

OE was designed to be a "personal" e-mail and newsreader client. It was
not designed to be a newgroup server, an archiver, or any functions
other than what it does have.

Really? So the fact that OE used to keep downloaded messages, and then later
changed to not do so anymore (see posts from others in this thread, if you
don't believe me), doesn't factor into your nonsense that OE has "always
been this way," and it was "designed this way." I wouldn't want to step on
your ideological toes; but you're wrong. It did have functions other than
what it does have. You just can't accept that because it would shatter your
belief in what a reader's "supposed to do."

Again, a ridiculous waste of time.

Well, then why did you start this conversation? You demand that only
replies that help you alter the product's behavior can be posted here?

No, but you keep repeating yourself over and over again, thinking somehow
that if you say enough times that OE was originally designed the way it
currently works, and that it should not work any differently, that I'll
accept your false statements. Your repeating the same thing over and over is
a waste of time. I heard you the first few times. Now just move on.

And, again, this isn't way OE used to work (your above statements
notwithstanding).

OE hasn't changed this functionality since OE5.

And yet you wrote above:

OE was designed to be a "personal" e-mail and newsreader client. It was
not designed to be a newgroup server, an archiver, or any functions
other than what it does have.

If it wasn't designed to have "any functions other than what it does have,"
then why did it, indeed, have those other functions (of retaining downloaded
messages) prior to OE5? Again, this discussion's a waste of time.

"Ron Sommer" wrote in message
...


"Neil" wrote in message
...

OE is doing what a newsreader is supposed to do, keep the messages on
your
computer synched with the newsgroup server.

Again, that was not the way OE used to work. It used to retain all msgs
that were downloaded.

I don't know of any newsreaders that do not sync with the server.
You have not mentioned what news server that you are using.

Why is that germane to the discussion?



The Microsoft server has a 90 day retention period.
--
Ronald Sommer



It is very germane.
You are incorrectly basing your idea of the operation of OE on a news
server that had a long retention period.
I have news servers that have a long retention period.
Because you insist on saying that OE used to keep all posts without saying
what news server that you were using, you haven't proved that your version
of OE works the way that you say.

Well, since OE functionality changed while using the same newsserver, I
assume the issue is with OE. Furthermore, I don't believe retention period
is the issue since, when OE did retain messages, it would retain them
indefinitely, easily at least a year or two. I don't think any newsserver
kept messages that long. So if OE always syncronized with the NS, then they
would have disappeared then, as well.

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...
Neil wrote:


The messages are still there. Just many of them are gone.

They are there.
They are gone.
Oh really. ;-)))

What a pathetic bunch of children I'm dealing with here. What, are you going
to go "nani nani boo boo" next?

I was saying that I'm not missing ALL the messages. The messages (in
general) are still there. Just many (but not all) of them are gone.

Make sense now?

Sheesh.

Yep...

"Neil" is a pimply-faced kid -- in way over his depth.

He can only transmit and not receive.

DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor

"Neil" wrote in message
...

But you really are playing devil's advocate here, aren't you? This
discussion's becoming a waste of time.

No, you're growing bored in not getting the answers that you want. OE
isn't going to change. You're the one beating the dead horse expecting
its behavior to change.

My word, you just won't stop, will you? Do you have some psychotic
compulsion to be right? Sheesh.

Where did I say I expected OE's behavior to change? Is that just what you
want to believe so you can keep going on and on about how it's not going
to change? Pathetic.

OE was designed to be a "personal" e-mail and newsreader client. It was
not designed to be a newgroup server, an archiver, or any functions
other than what it does have.

Really? So the fact that OE used to keep downloaded messages, and then
later changed to not do so anymore (see posts from others in this thread,
if you don't believe me), doesn't factor into your nonsense that OE has
"always been this way," and it was "designed this way." I wouldn't want to
step on your ideological toes; but you're wrong. It did have functions
other than what it does have. You just can't accept that because it would
shatter your belief in what a reader's "supposed to do."

Again, a ridiculous waste of time.

Well, then why did you start this conversation? You demand that only
replies that help you alter the product's behavior can be posted here?

No, but you keep repeating yourself over and over again, thinking somehow
that if you say enough times that OE was originally designed the way it
currently works, and that it should not work any differently, that I'll
accept your false statements. Your repeating the same thing over and over
is a waste of time. I heard you the first few times. Now just move on.

And, again, this isn't way OE used to work (your above statements
notwithstanding).

OE hasn't changed this functionality since OE5.

And yet you wrote above:

OE was designed to be a "personal" e-mail and newsreader client. It was
not designed to be a newgroup server, an archiver, or any functions
other than what it does have.

If it wasn't designed to have "any functions other than what it does
have," then why did it, indeed, have those other functions (of retaining
downloaded messages) prior to OE5? Again, this discussion's a waste of
time.

"Robert Aldwinckle" wrote in message
...

"Neil" wrote in message
...
It does make sense. Apart from differences only available by using
a synchronize command the main thing that you need to be aware of
is the Get 300 headers... option and the fact that its value is used to
do
an automatic Get Next 300... every time you enter a newsgroup when you
are in a Working Online state.


...
So the Next 1,000 command works fine too. No problem there.

But that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

You were saying that synchronization has nothing to do with my situation,
because I don't use synchronization. I understood that.

You went on to say:

"the main thing that you need to be aware of
is the Get 300 headers... option and the fact that its value is used to do
an automatic Get Next 300"

I was saying that I was already aware of that fact, that I get the next XXX
number of headers when I enter the newsgroup. I was saying that I was
already aware of that, and had no problem with the functionality.



You snipped the context of my explanation.

The only part I snipped was:

=============
So what's the point of having a synchronization setting of "no
synchronization" if OE is going to synchronize anyway?

Don't confuse two different results with two different actions. ; )
==============

I understood that, and agreed with you, and moved on. I supposed I could
have said "OK" or something. But I had nothing to say there.

I was showing you that you are confusing "synchronization"
which supports OE's synchronization commands
with the automatic deletion of expired headers.

And I understand what you're saying about my previous confusion about the
synchronization settings. No problem there.


The latter is separate from the synchronization commands
and happens every time a Get... is done, whether by request
or automatically when you enter the newsgroup.

OK, I think I misunderstood your point. I think I read your post too
quickly. I thought you were saying that if I didn't want synchronization, I
would need to use the Get Next Headers command instead. I was saying it was
working fine. So I see now what you're saying is that Get Next Headers will
delete the existing headers. (But this gets back to the same concept of OE
in general deleting headers, whether through this command or that command.)


If you don't have the Get next 300... option checked the automatic
Get next done for you has the equivalent effect of a Synchronize
Newsgroup command done while the Synchronize settings are
Headers Only.

And how would one get new messages would doing a Get Next Headers?


Again, I think you are ignoring the possibility that either you changed
your server (in which case you could have encountered new retention
policies) or the server you have been using also changed its retention
policies.


That's possible.

"Gerry" wrote in message
...
Neil

On closing Outlook Express 100 times. On some systems something changes
the counter in the Registry when it is not intended so automatic
compacting can be triggered quite a bit earlier. The counter is meant to
increment by one on closure but something else cause the counter to
increment at other times. Bruce Hagen writes about this regularly. It
doesn't happen here.

That's good to know. I wouldn't be surprised if that had something to do
with what was going on here. Thanks.

Thank you for this very helpful response.

"Rich/rerat" wrote in message
...
Neil,
This featured was introduced in Outlook Express 5. It was considered a
"bug" in
the beta stage, by some, and an improvement by others, from OE4. So this
"bug"
or feature has been around close to a decade now.

Since many ISP's are dropping newsgroup service, people have had to choose
another service. Many of the "free" news companies, have a short retention
period for storing messages on their servers. This means they can keep
their
costs down, and be able to offer the free service to the public. But it
also
means that this OE action will be more noticeable to users, if they did
not see
it before, because their former new service, had a longer message
retention
policy. People will need to have to subscribe to News companies that have
a
longer retention policy, which they will need to pay for themselves. Or
create a
new local folder or folders, and copy/move the message you want to keep to
this
(these) folder(s).

As stated many times in this newsgroup, the OE development team has been
disbanded, so their will be no new adjustments/fixes/upgrades to this
application, except for the occasional security update.

Here is a short list of newsgroup threads found in Google Newsgroups,
about this
subject.

OE5 removes messages from local file! Thread Posted on 2/16/1999

microsoft.public.inetexplorer.ie5beta.outlookexpre ss

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...+news+messages

Another thread about this Posted:

microsoft.public.inetexplorer.ie4.outlookexpress newsgroup 6/26/2000

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...e258565f148135


--
Add MS to your News Reader: news://msnews.microsoft.com
Rich/rerat
(RRR News) message rule
Previous Text Snipped to Save Bandwidth When Appropriate


"Neil" wrote in message
...
I'm using OE6 as my newsgroup reader. I keep losing my already-downloaded
headings from newsgroups. Very frustrating. I want to keep them.

Under Options, Maintenance, I have every box UNCHECKED, and all my
subscribed newsgroups are set to Don't Synchronize. What am I doing wrong?
How can I keep OE from periodically deleting my downloaded headers?

Thanks!