OE Is Deleting My NG Headers

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...
This pogue obviously doesn't understand the architecture of Outlook
Express, designed by Software Geniuses Of Their Day, within the hardware
constraints they faced -- which has already been explained here.

Matthew 7:6.

How incredibly self-righteous and ignorant of you! :-) I'm not surprised.

Isaiah 6:9

OE is doing what a newsreader is supposed to do, keep the messages on your
computer synched with the newsgroup server.

Again, that was not the way OE used to work. It used to retain all msgs that
were downloaded.

I don't know of any newsreaders that do not sync with the server.
You have not mentioned what news server that you are using.

Why is that germane to the discussion?



The Microsoft server has a 90 day retention period.
--
Ronald Sommer

"Steve Cochran" wrote in message
news
It would be refreshing to see Google come out with an OS. MS needs the
competition. Otherwise it will keep releasing crap like WLM and dumping
on the users.

Well, I guarantee you, it's coming. They developed Chrome specifically for
the purpose of providing stability when running web apps, something the
current web browsers weren't designed for (their main function was web
browsing; web applications came later, after their architecture was already
established).

I'm reminded of how Windows, in its early incarnations ( 3.0) was a very
clunky, rudimentary thing, that ran on top of DOS -- not very well a lot of
the time -- and then evolved into a stable "operating environment" on top of
DOS, and then eventually an "operating system" in its own right. I think
Chrome will take a similar path -- slowly, little by little, evolving into
its own operating environment, and then eventually operating system.
Probably at least 5-10 years until that happens though.

"Steve Cochran" wrote in message
...
You are just feeding the troll.


You're absolutely right. Thanks.

Chrome is APOS.
-
"Neil" wrote in message
...

"Steve Cochran" wrote in message
news
It would be refreshing to see Google come out with an OS. MS
needs the competition. Otherwise it will keep releasing crap
like WLM and dumping on the users.

Well, I guarantee you, it's coming. They developed Chrome
specifically for the purpose of providing stability when
running web apps, something the current web browsers weren't
designed for (their main function was web browsing; web
applications came later, after their architecture was already
established).

I'm reminded of how Windows, in its early incarnations ( 3.0)
was a very clunky, rudimentary thing, that ran on top of
DOS -- not very well a lot of the time -- and then evolved
into a stable "operating environment" on top of DOS, and then
eventually an "operating system" in its own right. I think
Chrome will take a similar path -- slowly, little by little,
evolving into its own operating environment, and then
eventually operating system. Probably at least 5-10 years
until that happens though.

"Doug W." stand@attention wrote in message
...
Neil: I don't have the problem you describe, perhaps you should re-check
ALL of your OE settings and start over from scratch.

I looked and looked and couldn't find anything to change. You're saying that
old messages stay in your newsgroup folders until you delete them? That's
the way OE used to work for me.

Under Tools, Options, Maintenance, I had under "When compacting messages",
the "Delete news messages" option unchecked (figuring that would keep them
on the hard drive). The thought came to me that perhaps there's a glitch in
OE when that's unchecked. So I checked it, and set it to 999 days. See if
that works better.

Either way, I didn't compact my messages anyway, so that shouldn't have come
into play.

In any case, I'm curious what settings you have, and how they may differ
from mine. Would you mind looking at yours and telling me how they differ
from mine, noted below? I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

Neil

==== Settings =====

Tools | Options | Maintenance: all items unchecked except Delete News
Messages (set to 999 days)

Tools | Accounts | News | Properties (for my newsgroup account):
"Include this account when checking for new messages": unchecked
Advanced tab: everything unchecked

All individual newsgroups set to Don't Synchronize

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...
Neil wrote:

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...
PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

Devil's Advocate: If posts were not removed from OE (in its current
design
state) when they were removed from the server and a heavy newsgroup
user
never deleted any posts manually, consider how bloated and ripe for
corruption the message store would become over time!

How true. There is still the 2GB maximum file size for the .dbx files
used by OE. That means you cannot store more than 2GB worth of headers
and bodies in a .dbx file for a newsgroup. Exceeding that threshold
results in a corrupted .dbx file. So with NNTP servers with extreme
retention intervals and with a user that downloads all headers and also
all their bodies then it becomes more likely the 2GB threshold gets
exceeded.

So you're saying that the software isn't intelligent enough to just say:
"Hey, you've reached the limit. Can't download anymore. Would you like me
to
clear some messages for you"? Instead it has to automatically delete
messages, just to avoid the 2 GB limit??? Ridiculous!

For what it's worth, all of my newsgroup DBXs are less than 10 MB! Not
even
anywhere close to 2 GB!!!!!

And, again, if it ever did come close, a simple message prompting to
delete
old messages would be fine (similar to what Windows does when your hard
drive gets near capacity).

There is no "high water" alert for when you approach or exceed the size
of the .dbx file. After all, just one post download that includes a
huge file could enlarge your 10MB .dbx file to past the 2GB boundary. I
wouldn't doubt that there are some huge files in the binary newsgroups,
like for videos (e.g., movies). Even if they are split up into multiple
posts and you use OE's Combine and Decode, one post sliced up into
several posts to recompile the file could chew up a lot of disk space in
a big hurry.

Well, if you download something so huge that it throws it over the limit, OE
could just say "Couldn't download; ran out of space."

That doesn't take away from that OE could tell you when you're, say, 80% at
capacity, that you need to remove some messages. That would be a simple
thing to do, and your argument about the possibility of a super-large file
taking you over the top doesn't take away from that. Nor does it help your
argument that OE should keep things small (since the same could happen then,
as well).

But you really are playing devil's advocate here, aren't you? This
discussion's becoming a waste of time.


OE is a dead product. Has been since 2002. Don't expect any functional
changes to an unsupported product. Won't happen. No point in beating a
dead horse. Either continue using OE if it works for you or switch to
something else. However, that won't solve your "syncrhonization"
complaint regarding the NNTP server expiring articles (removing them)
and your newsreader staying in sync with what articles have been
removed.

I can't speak positively for all newsreaders but the half dozen, or
more, that I've trialed all do this. You need move the posts into your
own separate store. In OE, that's just another folder separate of the
one under the news server folder tree.

That would be fine, if there were an option to do it automatically (i.e.,
archive message in this separate folder). I'd be fine with that. But to
individually move messages one-by-one is a ridiculous waste of time. Also,
since OE doesn't give me the courtesy of prompting me before it deletes
messages from my hard drive, that means I'd have to do it after every
download, every visit to the newsgroup. Again, a ridiculous waste of time.
And, again, this isn't way OE used to work (your above statements
notwithstanding).


You will need to download the
bodies for all those archived posts as obviously if you just download
headers because it won't be on the server when you later want to read
the post. That means a LOT more downloading; i.e., you will have to
download the bodies for all posts in all the subscribed newsgroups
rather than just those that you choose to read as you peruse the
newsgroups. This will fill up the .dbx files a lot faster.

If you switch to Windows Live Mail, you might ask in those newsgroups if
there is a limit. WLM doesn't use a single .dbx file to hold the
contents of posts in a newsgroup (one .dbx file per newsgroup). Instead
WLM scatters folders under your %userprofile% for each newsgroup and
each e-mail or post is a separate file. So WLM is saving the items in
the file system rather than in a file. There is an index file to keep
track of what item is in what folder object within WLM. I don't know if
there are problems with indexing or total item counts in the index file.
I personally do not like WLM creating all the folders and files on my
drive. You can ask in the following group if there are any size
maximums per newgroup or per news server:

microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

Thanks.


Even if the message store was dynamically expanded so it could be an
infinite size (up to consuming all the free space on your drives), more
items to hold and index means a slower performing newsreader. You need
to trim down your stored posts, especially for those with bodies, to
keep your newsreader responsive. Would you want to wait many minutes,
or perhaps much longer for a huge archive, to access a newsgroup? You
see a lot of users trying to emulate Google Groups to archive all those
old posts?

You missed my point. I didn't say I wanted to keep messages indefinitely and
with an infinite amount of space. I said that I want to be the one to decide
when and if messages are deleted, not have the software automatically do it
for me. Telling the software delete messages older than X days, or delete
messages when the store for that group gets about X MB is something I should
be able to do. I'm not saying it should be infinite; just that I should
control it.

Thanks,

Neil

"Doug W." stand@attention wrote in message
...
Chrome is APOS.

So was Windows 1.0. Think big, Doug. The future is not now, but it will be.
:-)

"Gerry" wrote in message
...
VanguardLH

I archive news posts. I do this every 14 days.

Would you mind telling me your process for doing this?

Thanks.

Neil,
This featured was introduced in Outlook Express 5. It was considered a "bug" in
the beta stage, by some, and an improvement by others, from OE4. So this "bug"
or feature has been around close to a decade now.

Since many ISP's are dropping newsgroup service, people have had to choose
another service. Many of the "free" news companies, have a short retention
period for storing messages on their servers. This means they can keep their
costs down, and be able to offer the free service to the public. But it also
means that this OE action will be more noticeable to users, if they did not see
it before, because their former new service, had a longer message retention
policy. People will need to have to subscribe to News companies that have a
longer retention policy, which they will need to pay for themselves. Or create a
new local folder or folders, and copy/move the message you want to keep to this
(these) folder(s).

As stated many times in this newsgroup, the OE development team has been
disbanded, so their will be no new adjustments/fixes/upgrades to this
application, except for the occasional security update.

Here is a short list of newsgroup threads found in Google Newsgroups, about this
subject.

OE5 removes messages from local file! Thread Posted on 2/16/1999

microsoft.public.inetexplorer.ie5beta.outlookexpre ss

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...+news+messages

Another thread about this Posted:

microsoft.public.inetexplorer.ie4.outlookexpress newsgroup 6/26/2000

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...e258565f148135


--
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Rich/rerat
(RRR News) message rule
Previous Text Snipped to Save Bandwidth When Appropriate


"Neil" wrote in message
...
I'm using OE6 as my newsgroup reader. I keep losing my already-downloaded
headings from newsgroups. Very frustrating. I want to keep them.

Under Options, Maintenance, I have every box UNCHECKED, and all my
subscribed newsgroups are set to Don't Synchronize. What am I doing wrong?
How can I keep OE from periodically deleting my downloaded headers?

Thanks!