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Between-character kerning for justified lines



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 2nd, 2004, 11:17 AM
Klaus Linke
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Top-end typography programs do this
automatically.


"Top-end" excludes the most widely used ones like Quark and InDesign, I
guess?

The main problems in Word seems to me the rather large default space, and
the fact that hyphenation doesn't always works as well as one could wish.
WP justification helps with the former, and you can check/improve on
hyphenation manually.

One thing to look out for is that kerning is enabled (Format Font
Character spacing).

Regards,
Klaus


  #12  
Old September 2nd, 2004, 11:31 AM
Jezebel
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Kerning obviously won't help for this problem, though.


"Klaus Linke" wrote in message
...
Top-end typography programs do this
automatically.


"Top-end" excludes the most widely used ones like Quark and InDesign, I
guess?

The main problems in Word seems to me the rather large default space, and
the fact that hyphenation doesn't always works as well as one could wish.
WP justification helps with the former, and you can check/improve on
hyphenation manually.

One thing to look out for is that kerning is enabled (Format Font
Character spacing).

Regards,
Klaus




  #13  
Old September 2nd, 2004, 01:30 PM
Klaus Linke
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"Jezebel" wrote:
Kerning obviously won't help for this problem, though.


Well, the topic was "between-character kerning", and many, many users don't
even know that this is turned off by default.

Klaus


  #14  
Old September 2nd, 2004, 01:54 PM
Klaus Linke
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Hi Jezebel,

BTW, I'd be interested in some source for your statements. What typesetting
systems do use variations in letter spacing to justify lines?

I've seen it only used in some newspapers, and it looked ghastly.

I could imagine that it might make some sense for newspapers if used very,
very sparingly and carefully.
But unless your columns are very narrow, it simply isn't needed.

Greetings,
Klaus



  #15  
Old September 2nd, 2004, 07:24 PM
Robert
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On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:45:06 +1000, Jezebel wrote:

The problem is that for typographic purposes the expansion is specific to
the *line* not the paragraph. One of the objectives in typography is to
minimise the variation in the width of the spaces between words. This can be
difficult if you are justifying to a narrow measure -- if there is just one
space within the line, it has to take up ALL the justification space for the
line. One typographic method for dealing with the problem is to cheat a
little and increase the character spacing *in that line* -- but not in other
lines in the same paragraph. Top-end typography programs do this
automatically.

"Robert" wrote in message
.. .
Greetings--
If you want to restrict expanded character spacing to a specific type of
paragraph, it is as easy to create any appropriate style with this feature
and apply it to the relevant paragraphs. Where is the problem?
I have personally used this trick quite successfully. It does serve this
purpose.
--
Cheers
Robert

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:12:18 +1000, Jezebel wrote:

"Robert" wrote in message
...
Greetings--
Expanded character spacing can be part of a style. If you make it part

of
the document Normal style, it will be applied to all of it.
--

That's why it doesn't help for this purpose.

Greetings--
With Word 2003, styles can be applied to part of a paragraph only if need
be (using the so-called "StyleSeparator" command.)
So expanded character spacing can be part of a style and can be applied to
any length of text, as desired.
But of course, this has to be done manually.
--
Cheers
Robert
  #16  
Old September 2nd, 2004, 10:56 PM
Jezebel
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Absolutely right that it usually looks awful. But typography is the art of
compromise: awful as it might look, the alternatives (such as a 3em word
space) might be worse). Then again -- as with a great deal of typography --
if it's done well you don't notice it.

And yes, it's normally only newspapers that print to columns narrow enough
to need it.



"Klaus Linke" wrote in message
...
Hi Jezebel,

BTW, I'd be interested in some source for your statements. What

typesetting
systems do use variations in letter spacing to justify lines?

I've seen it only used in some newspapers, and it looked ghastly.

I could imagine that it might make some sense for newspapers if used very,
very sparingly and carefully.
But unless your columns are very narrow, it simply isn't needed.

Greetings,
Klaus





  #17  
Old September 2nd, 2004, 10:57 PM
Jezebel
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With Word 2003, styles can be applied to part of a paragraph only if need
be (using the so-called "StyleSeparator" command.)
So expanded character spacing can be part of a style and can be applied to
any length of text, as desired.
But of course, this has to be done manually.


Exactly. That was the OP's complaint in the first place.


  #18  
Old September 3rd, 2004, 01:41 AM
Klaus Linke
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Hi Jezebel,

Now *I* have to agree 100% with you.

BTW, remember when we discussed how "proper" typesetting programs optimized
line breaks globally (Knuth...)?
Well, I got myself InDesign recently.
Right on the first book I did with it, the editor who proof-read it marked
*every* line where InDesign had put a word on the next line because of
global optimizations as an error.
Since I couldn't convince him that this was aesthetically more pleasing and
the proper way to do left-justified text, I finally had to break hundreds
of lines by hand to "fix" it :-(

Regards,
Klaus



"Jezebel" wrote:
Absolutely right that it usually looks awful. But typography is the
art of compromise: awful as it might look, the alternatives (such as a
3em word space) might be worse). Then again -- as with a great deal
of typography -- if it's done well you don't notice it.

And yes, it's normally only newspapers that print to columns narrow
enough to need it.



  #19  
Old September 3rd, 2004, 02:45 AM
Jezebel
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I do remember the discussion.

Perhaps you should have 'fixed' the editor ...

If you're interested in typographical arcana, have a look at 'Le Ton Beau de
Marot' by Hofstatter (he of Godel Escher and Bach fame) -- see if you can
pick the typographic jokes. It's cute, but also a classic example of why
writers -- even clever ones -- shouldn't be allowed to do their own
typography!

Do you want a "I'd rather be kerning" bumper sticker?



"Klaus Linke" wrote in message
...
Hi Jezebel,

Now *I* have to agree 100% with you.

BTW, remember when we discussed how "proper" typesetting programs

optimized
line breaks globally (Knuth...)?
Well, I got myself InDesign recently.
Right on the first book I did with it, the editor who proof-read it marked
*every* line where InDesign had put a word on the next line because of
global optimizations as an error.
Since I couldn't convince him that this was aesthetically more pleasing

and
the proper way to do left-justified text, I finally had to break hundreds
of lines by hand to "fix" it :-(

Regards,
Klaus



"Jezebel" wrote:
Absolutely right that it usually looks awful. But typography is the
art of compromise: awful as it might look, the alternatives (such as a
3em word space) might be worse). Then again -- as with a great deal
of typography -- if it's done well you don't notice it.

And yes, it's normally only newspapers that print to columns narrow
enough to need it.





  #20  
Old September 3rd, 2004, 03:27 AM
Klaus Linke
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Perhaps you should have 'fixed' the editor ...

I'm Walter Mitty the Undefeatable, and editors cannot faze me.

Do you want a "I'd rather be kerning" bumper sticker?


"Kerning" sounds like a fun thing to do... By all means!

Regards,
Klaus


 




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