Text form fields

Hello,

And, Thanks for your time, help, and advise!!

I have several documents that have many form fields.

When additional form fields are added and then the form
document is PROTECTED and SAVED the order of the TAB
selection to enter data for the next field is now out of
the expected order. Also, the first field in the document
(an added field at the top of the document) is not the
expected hilighted field when the document is first
opened. This would be expected since additional form
fields have been added either between current form fields
or at the begining of the document.

Question is, can the order of the form fields be reset
with a Word 97 tool bar selection and SAVED so that when
the document is first entered the first form field in the
file is the first active field hilited and the TAB will
progress through the form in the physical order of the
form fields in the word document file?

If not, would there be a macro that can be excuted to
reorder these form fields?


Thanks for your time, help and advise!!!

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

You can control the tab order with a macro. See
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/SetTabOrder.htm for an example.

Your description seems odd, though, because the default behavior of fields
in a protected form is exactly what you're asking for -- start in the field
closest to the beginning of the document, and go through sequentially left
to right and top to bottom. Normally you would need a macro only if the
desired sequence is different (often people want to go down a column of a
table and then rightward to the next column). Look in your template to see
whether there is already a macro controlling the order -- if so, that needs
to be updated when you add new fields.

--
Regards,
Jay Freedman
Microsoft Word MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org

Jerry wrote:
Hello,

And, Thanks for your time, help, and advise!!

I have several documents that have many form fields.

When additional form fields are added and then the form
document is PROTECTED and SAVED the order of the TAB
selection to enter data for the next field is now out of
the expected order. Also, the first field in the document
(an added field at the top of the document) is not the
expected hilighted field when the document is first
opened. This would be expected since additional form
fields have been added either between current form fields
or at the begining of the document.

Question is, can the order of the form fields be reset
with a Word 97 tool bar selection and SAVED so that when
the document is first entered the first form field in the
file is the first active field hilited and the TAB will
progress through the form in the physical order of the
form fields in the word document file?

If not, would there be a macro that can be excuted to
reorder these form fields?


Thanks for your time, help and advise!!!

Jerry

Hello Jay,

Thanks for that FAST Reply!!!!

Just took another look at the details of one of the
documents and how it was constructed, plus along with its
history..... Not a pretty site!

The original creation of all of the documents was from
scanned documents using a flat bed scanner (Microtek E3)
and the CAERE OMNIFORM 4.0 product. Then while in the
CAERE application the scanned file was "SAVED AS" a .rtf
file.

When the .RTF was opened with WORD 97 it was modified to
correct the scanner problems, then PROTECTED as a FORM
and saved as a .DOC file. The final result was that many
Frames were created and in each Frames is a Text Form
Field.

After finding that Frames were created with a Text Form
Field a DOC test file was created and the following was
found:

Seems you are right in a document that has only the
placement of Text Form Fields. The order is just as
you specified.

But, when a document has FRAMES and in these FRAMES
is a Text Form Field the order to TAB is based on the
order of the placement of Frames.


So, now that this situation is known is there a way to re-
order the Frames?

THANKS for your time, help, and advise!!!!

Jerry

-----Original Message-----
Hi Jerry,

You can control the tab order with a macro. See
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/SetTabOrder.htm for
an example.

Your description seems odd, though, because the default
behavior of fields
in a protected form is exactly what you're asking for --
start in the field
closest to the beginning of the document, and go through
sequentially left
to right and top to bottom. Normally you would need a
macro only if the
desired sequence is different (often people want to go
down a column of a
table and then rightward to the next column). Look in
your template to see
whether there is already a macro controlling the order --
if so, that needs
to be updated when you add new fields.

--
Regards,
Jay Freedman
Microsoft Word MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org

Jerry wrote:
Hello,

And, Thanks for your time, help, and advise!!

I have several documents that have many form fields.

When additional form fields are added and then the form
document is PROTECTED and SAVED the order of the TAB
selection to enter data for the next field is now out of
the expected order. Also, the first field in the
document
(an added field at the top of the document) is not the
expected hilighted field when the document is first
opened. This would be expected since additional form
fields have been added either between current form
fields
or at the begining of the document.

Question is, can the order of the form fields be reset
with a Word 97 tool bar selection and SAVED so that when
the document is first entered the first form field in
the
file is the first active field hilited and the TAB will
progress through the form in the physical order of the
form fields in the word document file?

If not, would there be a macro that can be excuted to
reorder these form fields?


Thanks for your time, help and advise!!!

Jerry


.

Hi Jerry,

I'm afraid you've got quite a mess on your hands. It may turn out to be less
work to recreate the whole document from scratch than to try to straighten
it out.

As you found, the tab order of the fields in the frames is determined by the
order of the frames. The thing that determines the frame order is the
placement of their anchors within the regular text paragraphs. If you go to
Tools Options View and turn on Object Anchors, you can see each frame's
anchor in the left margin when you select that frame.

Because the frames can float (be dragged around the page) while their anchor
points are in specific text paragraphs, you can easily get a situation where
frame A appears higher or further to the left than frame B, but frame B's
anchor comes before frame A's anchor. The tab order in that situation will
be B and then A.

Even worse, many frames can be anchored to the same text paragraph, and then
you can't tell what order they're in. If each one is anchored to a different
paragraph, at least then you can drag the anchors into the right order.

If only a few of your fields are out of order, it's worth moving those
anchors, creating new pararaphs to put them in if necessary. If it's dozens
of them, and their anchors are jammed together in bunches, then I think it's
easier to start over. Use a borderless table instead of frames, placing one
form field per cell.

--
Regards,
Jay Freedman
Microsoft Word MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org

wrote:
Hello Jay,

Thanks for that FAST Reply!!!!

Just took another look at the details of one of the
documents and how it was constructed, plus along with its
history..... Not a pretty site!

The original creation of all of the documents was from
scanned documents using a flat bed scanner (Microtek E3)
and the CAERE OMNIFORM 4.0 product. Then while in the
CAERE application the scanned file was "SAVED AS" a .rtf
file.

When the .RTF was opened with WORD 97 it was modified to
correct the scanner problems, then PROTECTED as a FORM
and saved as a .DOC file. The final result was that many
Frames were created and in each Frames is a Text Form
Field.

After finding that Frames were created with a Text Form
Field a DOC test file was created and the following was
found:

Seems you are right in a document that has only the
placement of Text Form Fields. The order is just as
you specified.

But, when a document has FRAMES and in these FRAMES
is a Text Form Field the order to TAB is based on the
order of the placement of Frames.


So, now that this situation is known is there a way to re-
order the Frames?

THANKS for your time, help, and advise!!!!

Jerry

-----Original Message-----
Hi Jerry,

You can control the tab order with a macro. See
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/SetTabOrder.htm for an example.

Your description seems odd, though, because the default behavior of
fields in a protected form is exactly what you're asking for --
start in the field closest to the beginning of the document, and go
through sequentially left to right and top to bottom. Normally you
would need a macro only if the desired sequence is different (often
people want to go down a column of a table and then rightward to the
next column). Look in
your template to see
whether there is already a macro controlling the order -- if so,
that needs to be updated when you add new fields.

--
Regards,
Jay Freedman
Microsoft Word MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org

Jerry wrote:
Hello,

And, Thanks for your time, help, and advise!!

I have several documents that have many form fields.

When additional form fields are added and then the form
document is PROTECTED and SAVED the order of the TAB
selection to enter data for the next field is now out of
the expected order. Also, the first field in the document
(an added field at the top of the document) is not the
expected hilighted field when the document is first
opened. This would be expected since additional form
fields have been added either between current form fields
or at the begining of the document.

Question is, can the order of the form fields be reset
with a Word 97 tool bar selection and SAVED so that when
the document is first entered the first form field in the
file is the first active field hilited and the TAB will
progress through the form in the physical order of the
form fields in the word document file?

If not, would there be a macro that can be excuted to
reorder these form fields?


Thanks for your time, help and advise!!!

Jerry


.

The order of frames depends on the order of the text paragraphs to which
they're anchored.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

wrote in message
...
Hello Jay,

Thanks for that FAST Reply!!!!

Just took another look at the details of one of the
documents and how it was constructed, plus along with its
history..... Not a pretty site!

The original creation of all of the documents was from
scanned documents using a flat bed scanner (Microtek E3)
and the CAERE OMNIFORM 4.0 product. Then while in the
CAERE application the scanned file was "SAVED AS" a .rtf
file.

When the .RTF was opened with WORD 97 it was modified to
correct the scanner problems, then PROTECTED as a FORM
and saved as a .DOC file. The final result was that many
Frames were created and in each Frames is a Text Form
Field.

After finding that Frames were created with a Text Form
Field a DOC test file was created and the following was
found:

Seems you are right in a document that has only the
placement of Text Form Fields. The order is just as
you specified.

But, when a document has FRAMES and in these FRAMES
is a Text Form Field the order to TAB is based on the
order of the placement of Frames.


So, now that this situation is known is there a way to re-
order the Frames?

THANKS for your time, help, and advise!!!!

Jerry

-----Original Message-----
Hi Jerry,

You can control the tab order with a macro. See
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/SetTabOrder.htm for
an example.

Your description seems odd, though, because the default
behavior of fields
in a protected form is exactly what you're asking for --
start in the field
closest to the beginning of the document, and go through
sequentially left
to right and top to bottom. Normally you would need a
macro only if the
desired sequence is different (often people want to go
down a column of a
table and then rightward to the next column). Look in
your template to see
whether there is already a macro controlling the order --
if so, that needs
to be updated when you add new fields.

--
Regards,
Jay Freedman
Microsoft Word MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org

Jerry wrote:
Hello,

And, Thanks for your time, help, and advise!!

I have several documents that have many form fields.

When additional form fields are added and then the form
document is PROTECTED and SAVED the order of the TAB
selection to enter data for the next field is now out of
the expected order. Also, the first field in the
document
(an added field at the top of the document) is not the
expected hilighted field when the document is first
opened. This would be expected since additional form
fields have been added either between current form
fields
or at the begining of the document.

Question is, can the order of the form fields be reset
with a Word 97 tool bar selection and SAVED so that when
the document is first entered the first form field in
the
file is the first active field hilited and the TAB will
progress through the form in the physical order of the
form fields in the word document file?

If not, would there be a macro that can be excuted to
reorder these form fields?


Thanks for your time, help and advise!!!

Jerry


.

Hi Jay,

Oh well,,,,after finding this out I guess I'll have to do
the best I can.

As you said it is a real big mess,,,,,but lucky for each
file there has been only a few Frames that have been
deleted and recreated during the "clean up" making the so
called anchor out of order. These can be moved so the TAB
order will be correct.

In every case each document has no created of clear text
as if it were created from the keyboard,,,, the scan and
OCR to create the form by the Caere Application placed
everything in text boxes, and for the form line it created
a Frame and put in a Text Form Field.

The original cursor, for instance on a newly created
document is in the upper left corner. That's where it is
on each of these documents.

I was hoping for a macro or .exe to reset the so called
anchor value for the Frames(???).

OK,,,,and thanks for the advise and your time!!!

Jerry


-----Original Message-----
Hi Jerry,

I'm afraid you've got quite a mess on your hands. It may
turn out to be less
work to recreate the whole document from scratch than to
try to straighten
it out.

As you found, the tab order of the fields in the frames
is determined by the
order of the frames. The thing that determines the frame
order is the
placement of their anchors within the regular text
paragraphs. If you go to
Tools Options View and turn on Object Anchors, you
can see each frame's
anchor in the left margin when you select that frame.

Because the frames can float (be dragged around the page)
while their anchor
points are in specific text paragraphs, you can easily
get a situation where
frame A appears higher or further to the left than frame
B, but frame B's
anchor comes before frame A's anchor. The tab order in
that situation will
be B and then A.

Even worse, many frames can be anchored to the same text
paragraph, and then
you can't tell what order they're in. If each one is
anchored to a different
paragraph, at least then you can drag the anchors into
the right order.

If only a few of your fields are out of order, it's worth
moving those
anchors, creating new pararaphs to put them in if
necessary. If it's dozens
of them, and their anchors are jammed together in
bunches, then I think it's
easier to start over. Use a borderless table instead of
frames, placing one
form field per cell.

--
Regards,
Jay Freedman
Microsoft Word MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org

wrote:
Hello Jay,

Thanks for that FAST Reply!!!!

Just took another look at the details of one of the
documents and how it was constructed, plus along with
its
history..... Not a pretty site!

The original creation of all of the documents was from
scanned documents using a flat bed scanner (Microtek E3)
and the CAERE OMNIFORM 4.0 product. Then while in the
CAERE application the scanned file was "SAVED AS" a .rtf
file.

When the .RTF was opened with WORD 97 it was modified to
correct the scanner problems, then PROTECTED as a FORM
and saved as a .DOC file. The final result was that many
Frames were created and in each Frames is a Text Form
Field.

After finding that Frames were created with a Text Form
Field a DOC test file was created and the following was
found:

Seems you are right in a document that has only the
placement of Text Form Fields. The order is just as
you specified.

But, when a document has FRAMES and in these FRAMES
is a Text Form Field the order to TAB is based on
the
order of the placement of Frames.


So, now that this situation is known is there a way to
re-
order the Frames?

THANKS for your time, help, and advise!!!!

Jerry

-----Original Message-----
Hi Jerry,

You can control the tab order with a macro. See
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/SetTabOrder.htm
for an example.

Your description seems odd, though, because the
default behavior of
fields in a protected form is exactly what you're
asking for --
start in the field closest to the beginning of the
document, and go
through sequentially left to right and top to bottom.
Normally you
would need a macro only if the desired sequence is
different (often
people want to go down a column of a table and then
rightward to the
next column). Look in
your template to see
whether there is already a macro controlling the
order -- if so,
that needs to be updated when you add new fields.

--
Regards,
Jay Freedman
Microsoft Word MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org

Jerry wrote:
Hello,

And, Thanks for your time, help, and advise!!

I have several documents that have many form fields.

When additional form fields are added and then the
form
document is PROTECTED and SAVED the order of the TAB
selection to enter data for the next field is now out
of
the expected order. Also, the first field in the
document
(an added field at the top of the document) is not the
expected hilighted field when the document is first
opened. This would be expected since additional form
fields have been added either between current form
fields
or at the begining of the document.

Question is, can the order of the form fields be reset
with a Word 97 tool bar selection and SAVED so that
when
the document is first entered the first form field in
the
file is the first active field hilited and the TAB
will
progress through the form in the physical order of the
form fields in the word document file?

If not, would there be a macro that can be excuted to
reorder these form fields?


Thanks for your time, help and advise!!!

Jerry


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