yENC Files

are you reall not getting it? *OE* is the application im talking about. of
course yEnc isnt an app.... im saying, pretty clearly, that if MS doesnt
cater its app to its customers (read: enable yenc decoding), then they lose
the customer.

yeah, its a free app. as is IE. but youre a fool if you think that means
they dont care about having the highest user base.

lets make it real simple for you:

yenc is to OE as directX CSS filters are to IE -- not standardized, but
something people like to use.

deal.


"Vanguard" wrote:

"matt del vecchio" wrote in
message ...
[righteous blah blah blah deleted]

...news flash: porn is a legitmate function for a newsreader. since
when is
its MS concern *what* you do w/ their clients? do they care that you
use MS
to view porn when the missus is away? no. do they care that who you
send
email to or what you say? no. get real.

as i said in another thread: an application provider writes apps to
make
their customers happy. if they cant/dont/wont, then thats fine. thats
also
when their customers leave them for another product. eos. get a job in
application development and youll figure this out one day.

as for the rest of your CDO crap, no idea what youre talking about. i
came
to the forums here what surfing the MS site and thought id post
something.
for my porn-loving newsgroup needs, i use a Xnews, a newsreader
client.


yEnc is an encoding scheme, not a particular application. Anyone can
write an application that can support the yEnc encoding scheme (what did
you think "Enc" stood for in its name?), as is proven by the usurper
author writing applications, others writing proxies (yep, you could use
one and that'll get you all that porn you miss when using OE), and still
others writing newsreaders that incorporate yEnc. Per your own
argument, if users want a feature that is available is some other
application but not in another, they'll go use that other application.
I'm sure Microsoft is unconcerned about their corporate customers
leaving Outlook because they can't get their porn at work (if they
manage to retain their employement) or from all that lost revenue by not
including yEnc in their FREE Outlook Express.

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Uh, who is "talking righteous"?

the "you just want to use it for PORN!" crusaders. the implication being, of
course, that easier downloads of porn are not a legitimate reason to improve
the product.

Why would they add a protocol which would bypass DRM?

not following here. i am not aware of any DRM in MIME, are you? do fill me
in if im missing something.

Porn isn't the issue. MSFT makes a half-hearted pass at adhering to what the
IETF has set as a standard. The last time I checked, yEnc was not an IETF

oh yes youre right -- MS is *all* about developing its applications around
agreed upon standards. give me a break man! have you had your head in the
sand during the entire IE debacle! MS is *king* of implementing proprietary,
non-standardized features/support. especially the HTML and CSS realm! i cant
tell you how many devs have loudly voiced their wish that MS would make IE7
more standards-complient (good the Acid2 browser test). but that isnt MS' bag
and we all know it.

so no, i dont buy that as a valid reason for why MS has lost touch on binary
support.

i also contest the notion that "most people" (people, in this sense, being
binary newsgroup consumers of course) have never heard of yEnc. if you are
referring to the entire world population tho, sure. but in the context of our
discussion? no way.


matt



supported standard. yEnc appears to be one of those niche thingys which are
unknown to a vast majority of people; yet those who need it generally know
where to find it.

I expect that MSFT will adopt it as soon after the IETF does as possible.

--
Norman
~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta
~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain
~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint

Besides, they don't make one penny off OE.

gee, for an MS-MVP you dont seem very bright. do they make a "penny" off IE?
not up front, no, neither have pricetags. then why all the hoopla, what the
desire to break laws in order to gain market domination? thats for another
thread. but rest assured, it *is* in MS' best interest to have as many
"customers" using their product over a competitors as possible.

carry on.

tell you how many devs have loudly voiced their wish that MS would make IE7
more standards-complient (good the Acid2 browser test). but that isnt MS' bag

err, "google" the Acid2 browser test.


matt

"matt del vecchio" wrote in
message ...
are you reall not getting it? *OE* is the application im talking
about. of
course yEnc isnt an app.... im saying, pretty clearly, that if MS
doesnt
cater its app to its customers (read: enable yenc decoding), then they
lose
the customer.


And like *I* said, I'm sure Microsoft isn't concerned about losing
revenue on their FREE - that's **F..R..E..E** - Outlook Express e-mail
client. I code a product. I put it on my web site. I charge NOTHING
for it. You download a copy. How much did I make? NOTHING. You
download a copy. How much did I make. NOTHING. Do I care if I lose
you as a customer? How the hell would I know you were a customer? You
obviously don't need to register the product and you don't need to
create an account to get the product. Microsoft may actually like to
lose customers so they could get rid of the product. When the rumor
started that Microsoft was discontinuing Outlook Express, there was a
big uproar from the user community whereupon Microsoft announced that it
was not dropping OE. Microsoft isn't going to lose any customers due to
lack of yEnc. How could it? OE didn't have yEnc before so not having
it won't make any of those OE customers abandon that product for
something they didn't have before.

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Get yourself a news program that supports yEnc. It won't be OE.

as should be patently clear to anyone capable of reading english, i have.
the point of my whole forray into this boring ass group, is that OE should
get with the needs of its customers and support an aspect of its app that is
quite lacking.

really, can you imagine such silliness in a photoshop group, over .PICT
support! get real.... you people need girlfriends. seriously.

matt

In ,
matt del vecchio did some
thinking and came up with these words:
Get yourself a news program that supports yEnc. It won't be OE.

as should be patently clear to anyone capable of reading english, i
have. the point of my whole forray into this boring ass group, is
that OE should get with the needs of its customers and support an
aspect of its app that is quite lacking.

really, can you imagine such silliness in a photoshop group, over
.PICT support! get real.... you people need girlfriends. seriously.

matt

While I agree with your logic in a sense - OE and the rest of MS products
are the results of the needs of "the many" instead of "the few." While yEnc
has collected a wide following, it has still not become a driving force and
as such won't drive itself into OE. It's hard enough to get the OE team to
deal with glaring deficiencies, much less support for an app that is more
*underground* than mainstream. You can always click on Help - Microsoft on
the Web - Send feedback to give them your vote towards the addition of this
support.

--
Ron Bogart {} ô¿ô¬
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Lovin life on Mercer Island 8^)
"Life is what happens while we are making other plans."
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
In memory of a true friend, MVP Alex Nichol (1935-2005)

"matt del vecchio" wrote in
message ...
Get yourself a news program that supports yEnc. It won't be OE.

as should be patently clear to anyone capable of reading english, i
have.
the point of my whole forray into this boring ass group, is that OE
should
get with the needs of its customers and support an aspect of its app
that is
quite lacking.

really, can you imagine such silliness in a photoshop group, over
.PICT
support! get real.... you people need girlfriends. seriously.

matt


It does meet the needs of its users. News flash: YOU are not its only
user. If OE didn't meet the needs of its users then its users wouldn't
be using it. DUH! Oh, and there are graphic programs that do NOT
support every graphics file format that has ever existed on this planet.
And guess what those users had to do? Use another product to support
that other graphics format. DUH!

You are getting berated because all you've done so far is whine and
complain about a product that doesn't support something YOU want in the
product. I use multiple newsreaders depending on what function I want
from each. OE is lousy as an offline reader and I'd rather use Newrover
for that. I may replace OE with Xnews to get far superior regular
expressions and the ability to search in ANY header and also let you
define which headers are displayed in the preview pane so, for example,
you can get alerted when some clown uses FollowUp-To in an attempt to
redirect your reply to some other newsgroup than where you intended to
post. Some folks use Newsbin because they only want to strip out all
the files attached in some binary newsgroup (it's been about 3, or more
years since I looked at Newsbin and decided binaries weren't where I
wanted to spend my time, so there might be better automatic scanning and
file extracting newsreaders out there by now). Instead of using OE to
waste time to read a music group trying to find songs or a group like
alt.comp.graphics to yank images, they use Newsbin or a similarly
functioned newsreader to yank all the posts with attachments to yank and
save all that match whatever filetype(s) they want.

Get a newsreader that satisfies your needs. You have LOTS of choices.
When Microsoft perceives a *significant* number of users want yEnc, and
when yEnc actually has a stable encoding definition which is no longer
non-compliant with other Usenet standards (like trying to use the
unstructured Subject header as a structured header to encode the encoded
section within the body), then you'll see Microsoft bothering with it.
I forget which one it was, but one newsreader author got so ****ed at
the yEnc author continually tweaking and changing the encoding scheme
that they dumped support for yEnc.

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like i said elsewhere in this thread....pasted for your convienence:


Besides, they don't make one penny off OE.

gee, for an MS-MVP you dont seem very bright. do they make a "penny" off IE?
not up front, no, neither have pricetags. then why all the hoopla, what the
desire to break laws in order to gain market domination? thats for another
thread. but rest assured, it *is* in MS' best interest to have as many
"customers" using their product over a competitors as possible. [its about
the tie ins, foo.]

carry on.









"Vanguard" wrote:

"matt del vecchio" wrote in
message ...
are you reall not getting it? *OE* is the application im talking
about. of
course yEnc isnt an app.... im saying, pretty clearly, that if MS
doesnt
cater its app to its customers (read: enable yenc decoding), then they
lose
the customer.


And like *I* said, I'm sure Microsoft isn't concerned about losing
revenue on their FREE - that's **F..R..E..E** - Outlook Express e-mail
client. I code a product. I put it on my web site. I charge NOTHING
for it. You download a copy. How much did I make? NOTHING. You
download a copy. How much did I make. NOTHING. Do I care if I lose
you as a customer? How the hell would I know you were a customer? You
obviously don't need to register the product and you don't need to
create an account to get the product. Microsoft may actually like to
lose customers so they could get rid of the product. When the rumor
started that Microsoft was discontinuing Outlook Express, there was a
big uproar from the user community whereupon Microsoft announced that it
was not dropping OE. Microsoft isn't going to lose any customers due to
lack of yEnc. How could it? OE didn't have yEnc before so not having
it won't make any of those OE customers abandon that product for
something they didn't have before.

--
__________________________________________________ __________
Post your replies to the newsgroup. Share with others.
E-mail reply: Remove "NIXTHIS" and add "#VS811" to Subject.
__________________________________________________ __________

finally! somebody whos able to take his lips off the great MS, ah, glass of
koolaid...

well said. ill do that.



"Ron Bogart" wrote:

In ,
matt del vecchio did some
thinking and came up with these words:
Get yourself a news program that supports yEnc. It won't be OE.

as should be patently clear to anyone capable of reading english, i
have. the point of my whole forray into this boring ass group, is
that OE should get with the needs of its customers and support an
aspect of its app that is quite lacking.

really, can you imagine such silliness in a photoshop group, over
.PICT support! get real.... you people need girlfriends. seriously.

matt

While I agree with your logic in a sense - OE and the rest of MS products
are the results of the needs of "the many" instead of "the few." While yEnc
has collected a wide following, it has still not become a driving force and
as such won't drive itself into OE. It's hard enough to get the OE team to
deal with glaring deficiencies, much less support for an app that is more
*underground* than mainstream. You can always click on Help - Microsoft on
the Web - Send feedback to give them your vote towards the addition of this
support.

--
Ron Bogart {} ô¿ô¬
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Lovin life on Mercer Island 8^)
"Life is what happens while we are making other plans."
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
In memory of a true friend, MVP Alex Nichol (1935-2005)