Individual vs.whole dB locks on forms/reports during modification

MS underestimates how much on-the-fly use there is out here of access DBs.
In my engineering co we have teams of 5-10 users modifying data directly in
the .mdb files all the time. Linked front ends are just too slow and time is
money in all businesses. And no, we don't restrict users to forms although
we do use forms and reports to meet a particular need and those needs change
on an hourly basis.

Locks should be smart enough to determine that if noone is using a paticular
form or report, modification is ok. How about a lock on the form, not on the
whole database! Same as it is with tables, right?

Here's another data integrity SNAFU, say a user opens a form for modify and
they are notified that they cannot save changes because they do not have
exclusive access, and they select to go ahead and edit the form....everyone
is still locked out, until that user closes the form view and they will never
be able to save their changes until everyone is logged out. A access
stalemate!

MS data integrity means 'prevent everyone from doing anything', or at least
make it hard enough that they lose the urge to try.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...c.access.forms

Is there a question here or do you just want to rant?

--
--Roger Carlson
Access Database Samples: www.rogersaccesslibrary.com
Want answers to your Access questions in your Email?
Free subscription:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/...UBED1=ACCESS-L

"mikebris@bmcd" wrote in message
...
MS underestimates how much on-the-fly use there is out here of access DBs.
In my engineering co we have teams of 5-10 users modifying data directly
in
the .mdb files all the time. Linked front ends are just too slow and time
is
money in all businesses. And no, we don't restrict users to forms
although
we do use forms and reports to meet a particular need and those needs
change
on an hourly basis.

Locks should be smart enough to determine that if noone is using a
paticular
form or report, modification is ok. How about a lock on the form, not on
the
whole database! Same as it is with tables, right?

Here's another data integrity SNAFU, say a user opens a form for modify
and
they are notified that they cannot save changes because they do not have
exclusive access, and they select to go ahead and edit the
form....everyone
is still locked out, until that user closes the form view and they will
never
be able to save their changes until everyone is logged out. A access
stalemate!

MS data integrity means 'prevent everyone from doing anything', or at
least
make it hard enough that they lose the urge to try.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...c.access.forms

He just want to rant. What he wants is to use the tool incorrectly, but it
be smart enough to let him do things that he should not.
Sure, time = money in business, but how much time is he losing by not
properly designing and building a database that will work for him?
Further more, he obviously does not understand what a database really is.
My recommendation would be that he abandon Access and use Excel. It is
designed to allow inconsistent, unusable, and unedited data.

"Roger Carlson" wrote:

Is there a question here or do you just want to rant?

--
--Roger Carlson
Access Database Samples: www.rogersaccesslibrary.com
Want answers to your Access questions in your Email?
Free subscription:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/...UBED1=ACCESS-L

"mikebris@bmcd" wrote in message
...
MS underestimates how much on-the-fly use there is out here of access DBs.
In my engineering co we have teams of 5-10 users modifying data directly
in
the .mdb files all the time. Linked front ends are just too slow and time
is
money in all businesses. And no, we don't restrict users to forms
although
we do use forms and reports to meet a particular need and those needs
change
on an hourly basis.

Locks should be smart enough to determine that if noone is using a
paticular
form or report, modification is ok. How about a lock on the form, not on
the
whole database! Same as it is with tables, right?

Here's another data integrity SNAFU, say a user opens a form for modify
and
they are notified that they cannot save changes because they do not have
exclusive access, and they select to go ahead and edit the
form....everyone
is still locked out, until that user closes the form view and they will
never
be able to save their changes until everyone is logged out. A access
stalemate!

MS data integrity means 'prevent everyone from doing anything', or at
least
make it hard enough that they lose the urge to try.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...c.access.forms

Mike,
You obviously don't know much about databases in general and Access in
particular. If you did, you would be able to configure your database to
overcome the issues you are complaining about.

I suggest you do one of two things. Either find someone who is competent to
structure your database so you can use it or "loose your urge to try" and use
Excel instead.



"mikebris@bmcd" wrote:

MS underestimates how much on-the-fly use there is out here of access DBs.
In my engineering co we have teams of 5-10 users modifying data directly in
the .mdb files all the time. Linked front ends are just too slow and time is
money in all businesses. And no, we don't restrict users to forms although
we do use forms and reports to meet a particular need and those needs change
on an hourly basis.

Locks should be smart enough to determine that if noone is using a paticular
form or report, modification is ok. How about a lock on the form, not on the
whole database! Same as it is with tables, right?

Here's another data integrity SNAFU, say a user opens a form for modify and
they are notified that they cannot save changes because they do not have
exclusive access, and they select to go ahead and edit the form....everyone
is still locked out, until that user closes the form view and they will never
be able to save their changes until everyone is logged out. A access
stalemate!

MS data integrity means 'prevent everyone from doing anything', or at least
make it hard enough that they lose the urge to try.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...c.access.forms

I didn't think new groupies would be reading this....

But to answer your question, NO, there is no question, but there are
implicit sugestions which is what the site is trying to collect..hence the
big buttons where you can either agree or disagree to vote for a
....suggestion.

So to spell them out for those who prefer not to analzye what they read, my
suggestions a

Fix access so that users can once again modify forms while others are logged
in.
Fix acesss so that users can once again modify reports while others are
logged in.
Fix access so that a user is not allowed to put the whole database in a
locked state while others are logged in.
Employ per form and per report level locks exactly like the table locks so
that other users can sill acess data even though someone is creating a report
or form for their own use.

"Roger Carlson" wrote:

Is there a question here or do you just want to rant?

--
--Roger Carlson
Access Database Samples: www.rogersaccesslibrary.com
Want answers to your Access questions in your Email?
Free subscription:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/...UBED1=ACCESS-L

"mikebris@bmcd" wrote in message
...
MS underestimates how much on-the-fly use there is out here of access DBs.
In my engineering co we have teams of 5-10 users modifying data directly
in
the .mdb files all the time. Linked front ends are just too slow and time
is
money in all businesses. And no, we don't restrict users to forms
although
we do use forms and reports to meet a particular need and those needs
change
on an hourly basis.

Locks should be smart enough to determine that if noone is using a
paticular
form or report, modification is ok. How about a lock on the form, not on
the
whole database! Same as it is with tables, right?

Here's another data integrity SNAFU, say a user opens a form for modify
and
they are notified that they cannot save changes because they do not have
exclusive access, and they select to go ahead and edit the
form....everyone
is still locked out, until that user closes the form view and they will
never
be able to save their changes until everyone is logged out. A access
stalemate!

MS data integrity means 'prevent everyone from doing anything', or at
least
make it hard enough that they lose the urge to try.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...c.access.forms

Newbie? You must be kidding.
If you know what you are doing, everything you want "fixed" you could do
yourself with the exception of locking forms and reports which really makes
no sense at all. It is reasonable that multiple users can use the same form.
It is the data you want to protect. Reports are output to present data, not
interactive objects at all.

Now, if you would like to improve your life, why not ask some questions here
about how to implement locking the way you need it, and how to configure your
application to improve performance. I'm sure you will find plenty of people
here more than willing to help.

"mikebris@bmcd" wrote:

I didn't think new groupies would be reading this....

But to answer your question, NO, there is no question, but there are
implicit sugestions which is what the site is trying to collect..hence the
big buttons where you can either agree or disagree to vote for a
...suggestion.

So to spell them out for those who prefer not to analzye what they read, my
suggestions a

Fix access so that users can once again modify forms while others are logged
in.
Fix acesss so that users can once again modify reports while others are
logged in.
Fix access so that a user is not allowed to put the whole database in a
locked state while others are logged in.
Employ per form and per report level locks exactly like the table locks so
that other users can sill acess data even though someone is creating a report
or form for their own use.

"Roger Carlson" wrote:

Is there a question here or do you just want to rant?

--
--Roger Carlson
Access Database Samples: www.rogersaccesslibrary.com
Want answers to your Access questions in your Email?
Free subscription:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/...UBED1=ACCESS-L

"mikebris@bmcd" wrote in message
...
MS underestimates how much on-the-fly use there is out here of access DBs.
In my engineering co we have teams of 5-10 users modifying data directly
in
the .mdb files all the time. Linked front ends are just too slow and time
is
money in all businesses. And no, we don't restrict users to forms
although
we do use forms and reports to meet a particular need and those needs
change
on an hourly basis.

Locks should be smart enough to determine that if noone is using a
paticular
form or report, modification is ok. How about a lock on the form, not on
the
whole database! Same as it is with tables, right?

Here's another data integrity SNAFU, say a user opens a form for modify
and
they are notified that they cannot save changes because they do not have
exclusive access, and they select to go ahead and edit the
form....everyone
is still locked out, until that user closes the form view and they will
never
be able to save their changes until everyone is logged out. A access
stalemate!

MS data integrity means 'prevent everyone from doing anything', or at
least
make it hard enough that they lose the urge to try.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...c.access.forms

Quippy but useless, and how grandios does someone have to be to suppose they
know what someone else does or does not know or how they need to use a
database to perform their work. Do you work for Microsoft?

Do I know VB - enough to get in trouble
Do I know VBA - enough to do what I need to.

Do you have any idea of how I use Access, what kind of data I use it to
process, or how access speeds up my work? NO.

Do you know how we use access to make 65000 wire terminations land in the
right spot at a power plant in Montana with use multiple tables and a couple
of queries and forms?

Then shut up.

Mike
Controls Engineer


"Klatuu" wrote:

Mike,
You obviously don't know much about databases in general and Access in
particular. If you did, you would be able to configure your database to
overcome the issues you are complaining about.

I suggest you do one of two things. Either find someone who is competent to
structure your database so you can use it or "loose your urge to try" and use
Excel instead.



"mikebris@bmcd" wrote:

MS underestimates how much on-the-fly use there is out here of access DBs.
In my engineering co we have teams of 5-10 users modifying data directly in
the .mdb files all the time. Linked front ends are just too slow and time is
money in all businesses. And no, we don't restrict users to forms although
we do use forms and reports to meet a particular need and those needs change
on an hourly basis.

Locks should be smart enough to determine that if noone is using a paticular
form or report, modification is ok. How about a lock on the form, not on the
whole database! Same as it is with tables, right?

Here's another data integrity SNAFU, say a user opens a form for modify and
they are notified that they cannot save changes because they do not have
exclusive access, and they select to go ahead and edit the form....everyone
is still locked out, until that user closes the form view and they will never
be able to save their changes until everyone is logged out. A access
stalemate!

MS data integrity means 'prevent everyone from doing anything', or at least
make it hard enough that they lose the urge to try.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...c.access.forms

New groupies...that's rich.

Suggestion: Fix access so that users can once again modify forms while
others are logged in.
Answer: MS deliberately put this in Access 2000 because of the multitude of
problems with earlier versions that allowed people to edit database objects
like forms and reports while other users are in the database. It was a
major cause of database corruption.

Suggestion: Fix acesss so that users can once again modify reports while
others are logged in.
Answer: ditto above. Although you don't want to use Front-Ends, this is the
best practice. You don't get users walking all over each other's design
changes. Way back when Access allowed it, this was a constant headache for
the database developer.

Suggestion: Fix access so that a user is not allowed to put the whole
database in a locked state while others are logged in.
Answer: Not sure what you mean here. If you're talking about database
objects (forms, reports, etc.), then it's the same answer as above. If you
are talking about one user opening the database and then it's Read-Only by
everyone else, this is a Network Rights issue. If you're talking about
record-locking, you have to have something like this in any multi-user
database product.

Suggestion: Employ per form and per report level locks exactly like the
table locks so that other users can still access data even though someone is
creating a report or form for their own use
Answered above. You're repeating yourself.

Frankly, you're deliberately using the product incorrectly then complaining
about it. You don't use a wrench to pound nails and then wonder why it
doesn't work very well, do you?

--
--Roger Carlson
Access Database Samples: www.rogersaccesslibrary.com
Want answers to your Access questions in your Email?
Free subscription:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/...UBED1=ACCESS-L



"mikebris@bmcd" wrote in message
...
I didn't think new groupies would be reading this....

But to answer your question, NO, there is no question, but there are
implicit sugestions which is what the site is trying to collect..hence the
big buttons where you can either agree or disagree to vote for a
...suggestion.

So to spell them out for those who prefer not to analzye what they read,
my
suggestions a

Fix access so that users can once again modify forms while others are
logged
in.
Fix acesss so that users can once again modify reports while others are
logged in.
Fix access so that a user is not allowed to put the whole database in a
locked state while others are logged in.
Employ per form and per report level locks exactly like the table locks so
that other users can sill acess data even though someone is creating a
report
or form for their own use.

"Roger Carlson" wrote:

Is there a question here or do you just want to rant?

--
--Roger Carlson
Access Database Samples: www.rogersaccesslibrary.com
Want answers to your Access questions in your Email?
Free subscription:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/...UBED1=ACCESS-L

"mikebris@bmcd" wrote in
message
...
MS underestimates how much on-the-fly use there is out here of access
DBs.
In my engineering co we have teams of 5-10 users modifying data
directly
in
the .mdb files all the time. Linked front ends are just too slow and
time
is
money in all businesses. And no, we don't restrict users to forms
although
we do use forms and reports to meet a particular need and those needs
change
on an hourly basis.

Locks should be smart enough to determine that if noone is using a
paticular
form or report, modification is ok. How about a lock on the form, not
on
the
whole database! Same as it is with tables, right?

Here's another data integrity SNAFU, say a user opens a form for
modify
and
they are notified that they cannot save changes because they do not
have
exclusive access, and they select to go ahead and edit the
form....everyone
is still locked out, until that user closes the form view and they
will
never
be able to save their changes until everyone is logged out. A access
stalemate!

MS data integrity means 'prevent everyone from doing anything', or at
least
make it hard enough that they lose the urge to try.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click
the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,
follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and
then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.



http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...c.access.forms

All I could possibly know about you is what is in your posts. And, sadly, I
am very under impressed. You really do not know much about Access or how to
configure it.
No sin there, that what this site is for - to learn. It really is not a
bitch blog.

So, please allow me to give you one pointer with your locking problem that
may help:

From your database menu, select Tools- Options - Advanced tab
Then set Default Open Mode to Shared
Set Default Record Locking to No Locks

This will allow mutiple users to edit data as much as they like. It will
only lock a record while it is being updated.

I hope this will help your database and improve your demeanor.

"mikebris@bmcd" wrote:

Quippy but useless, and how grandios does someone have to be to suppose they
know what someone else does or does not know or how they need to use a
database to perform their work. Do you work for Microsoft?

Do I know VB - enough to get in trouble
Do I know VBA - enough to do what I need to.

Do you have any idea of how I use Access, what kind of data I use it to
process, or how access speeds up my work? NO.

Do you know how we use access to make 65000 wire terminations land in the
right spot at a power plant in Montana with use multiple tables and a couple
of queries and forms?

Then shut up.

Mike
Controls Engineer


"Klatuu" wrote:

Mike,
You obviously don't know much about databases in general and Access in
particular. If you did, you would be able to configure your database to
overcome the issues you are complaining about.

I suggest you do one of two things. Either find someone who is competent to
structure your database so you can use it or "loose your urge to try" and use
Excel instead.



"mikebris@bmcd" wrote:

MS underestimates how much on-the-fly use there is out here of access DBs.
In my engineering co we have teams of 5-10 users modifying data directly in
the .mdb files all the time. Linked front ends are just too slow and time is
money in all businesses. And no, we don't restrict users to forms although
we do use forms and reports to meet a particular need and those needs change
on an hourly basis.

Locks should be smart enough to determine that if noone is using a paticular
form or report, modification is ok. How about a lock on the form, not on the
whole database! Same as it is with tables, right?

Here's another data integrity SNAFU, say a user opens a form for modify and
they are notified that they cannot save changes because they do not have
exclusive access, and they select to go ahead and edit the form....everyone
is still locked out, until that user closes the form view and they will never
be able to save their changes until everyone is logged out. A access
stalemate!

MS data integrity means 'prevent everyone from doing anything', or at least
make it hard enough that they lose the urge to try.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...c.access.forms

It's a very good thing that you're so good you don't need any help, because
I fear with that attitude, you won't get any here.

--
--Roger Carlson
Access Database Samples: www.rogersaccesslibrary.com
Want answers to your Access questions in your Email?
Free subscription:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/...UBED1=ACCESS-L

"mikebris@bmcd" wrote in message
...
Quippy but useless, and how grandios does someone have to be to suppose
they
know what someone else does or does not know or how they need to use a
database to perform their work. Do you work for Microsoft?

Do I know VB - enough to get in trouble
Do I know VBA - enough to do what I need to.

Do you have any idea of how I use Access, what kind of data I use it to
process, or how access speeds up my work? NO.

Do you know how we use access to make 65000 wire terminations land in the
right spot at a power plant in Montana with use multiple tables and a
couple
of queries and forms?

Then shut up.

Mike
Controls Engineer


"Klatuu" wrote:

Mike,
You obviously don't know much about databases in general and Access in
particular. If you did, you would be able to configure your database to
overcome the issues you are complaining about.

I suggest you do one of two things. Either find someone who is
competent to
structure your database so you can use it or "loose your urge to try"
and use
Excel instead.



"mikebris@bmcd" wrote:

MS underestimates how much on-the-fly use there is out here of access
DBs.
In my engineering co we have teams of 5-10 users modifying data
directly in
the .mdb files all the time. Linked front ends are just too slow and
time is
money in all businesses. And no, we don't restrict users to forms
although
we do use forms and reports to meet a particular need and those needs
change
on an hourly basis.

Locks should be smart enough to determine that if noone is using a
paticular
form or report, modification is ok. How about a lock on the form, not
on the
whole database! Same as it is with tables, right?

Here's another data integrity SNAFU, say a user opens a form for
modify and
they are notified that they cannot save changes because they do not
have
exclusive access, and they select to go ahead and edit the
form....everyone
is still locked out, until that user closes the form view and they
will never
be able to save their changes until everyone is logged out. A access
stalemate!

MS data integrity means 'prevent everyone from doing anything', or at
least
make it hard enough that they lose the urge to try.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click
the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,
follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and
then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...c.access.forms