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#11
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Life without Section Breaks?
But most people _don't_ insert their columniation after the document
is finished; they will insert section breaks as they're typing along, and if there's a two-column passage less than one page long, they will likely encounter the problem Pamelia explains how to cure. Your procedure works, as she said, only in the simplest cases. She didn't suggest that what you said is "untrue," only that it's true only a small part of the time. On Jun 3, 6:54*am, CyberTaz wrote: On 6/2/10 10:09 PM, in article a8f3c0034116a@uwe, "Pamelia Caswell *via OfficeKB.com" u43222@uwe wrote: CyberTaz wrote: The fact remains, though, that the imposition of Continuous section breaks -- or any other type -- neither inherently disrupts the continuity of Headers or Footers, nor interferes with page numbering. Further, it makes absolutely no difference whether the CSBs span a single empty paragraph or multiple pages... or even whether there are several CSBs on a single page. I very much disagree with you on this point. Try this: *in a new document header, add the page number code and set the page numbering to start at 22. Add page breaks until you get to page 26. *Add some text, select it, and make it double column. *Add a page break after the text. *The next page number shown will be 23. You don't seem to realize that you have done nothing here but reinforce the very points I am making. I would never consider doing any such hatchet job for experimental or any other purpose. *Anything* can be expected to fail if it's jerry-rigged to do so. If you want a *valid* test of what I'm saying: 1- Create the new document & populate it with =rand(40,17), 2- Create you Header/Footer & include page numbers, 3- Select as many portions as you wish, each of whatever length you prefer & apply your columnar layout as you go. There will be NO disruption to the H/F or page numbering. This is what the OP was attempting to do. Anything beyond that is irrelevant. If you then want to hack at it in the manner you describe [i.e., "Add a page break after the text."] I can't be held accountable for the consequences.... Nor can the original section breaks. The band-aid fix is to change 23 to 27. *But later changes to the document that cause section 3 to cross pages will bring the page number problem back. The better fix is to go to the header for section 3 (& any later sections, as appropriate) and set the page number start value to continuous. The best "fix" is to understand that Word replicates section settings in new sections and to fix it before leaving the page. ... Or to avoid creating such a shambles in the first place. Quite frankly, though, when I have to rework a document that has been mismanaged as badly as what you describe I consider the "best fix" to reconstruct it. You've conveniently snipped the last paragraph of my reply which pertains to every aspect of your response, so I'll reinsert it he I don't doubt that you may have had to "fix such documents", but it isn't the fault of the section breaks that the documents needed fixing. It's how the sections were mangled that caused the breakage. |
#12
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Life without Section Breaks?
A perhaps more common example could have been given, but I would not call
that "jerry-rigged" at all. It is not uncommon to have a document with a cover page, an introduction/table of contents on pages numbered with roman numerals and the main body of the document numbered with arabic numbers starting at 1. That is unless you call what has to be done to come up with that arrangement "jerry-rigging" If the page numbering in the main body of the document is formatted to start at 1 rather than Continue from the previous section and then a section break is inserted into the body of the document for what ever reason (change of orientation, etc.), the numbering in the new section will start automatically start at 1. -- Hope this helps. Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my services on a paid consulting basis. Doug Robbins - Word MVP, originally posted via msnews.microsoft.com "CyberTaz" wrote in message .. . On 6/2/10 10:09 PM, in article a8f3c0034116a@uwe, "Pamelia Caswell via OfficeKB.com" u43222@uwe wrote: CyberTaz wrote: The fact remains, though, that the imposition of Continuous section breaks -- or any other type -- neither inherently disrupts the continuity of Headers or Footers, nor interferes with page numbering. Further, it makes absolutely no difference whether the CSBs span a single empty paragraph or multiple pages... or even whether there are several CSBs on a single page. I very much disagree with you on this point. Try this: in a new document header, add the page number code and set the page numbering to start at 22. Add page breaks until you get to page 26. Add some text, select it, and make it double column. Add a page break after the text. The next page number shown will be 23. You don't seem to realize that you have done nothing here but reinforce the very points I am making. I would never consider doing any such hatchet job for experimental or any other purpose. *Anything* can be expected to fail if it's jerry-rigged to do so. If you want a *valid* test of what I'm saying: 1- Create the new document & populate it with =rand(40,17), 2- Create you Header/Footer & include page numbers, 3- Select as many portions as you wish, each of whatever length you prefer & apply your columnar layout as you go. There will be NO disruption to the H/F or page numbering. This is what the OP was attempting to do. Anything beyond that is irrelevant. If you then want to hack at it in the manner you describe [i.e., "Add a page break after the text."] I can't be held accountable for the consequences... Nor can the original section breaks. The band-aid fix is to change 23 to 27. But later changes to the document that cause section 3 to cross pages will bring the page number problem back. The better fix is to go to the header for section 3 (& any later sections, as appropriate) and set the page number start value to continuous. The best "fix" is to understand that Word replicates section settings in new sections and to fix it before leaving the page. ... Or to avoid creating such a shambles in the first place. Quite frankly, though, when I have to rework a document that has been mismanaged as badly as what you describe I consider the "best fix" to reconstruct it. You've conveniently snipped the last paragraph of my reply which pertains to every aspect of your response, so I'll reinsert it he I don't doubt that you may have had to "fix such documents", but it isn't the fault of the section breaks that the documents needed fixing. It's how the sections were mangled that caused the breakage. Pam Regards |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac |
#13
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Life without Section Breaks?
IMHO
I would hate to get in between the protagonists in this debate - especially since you outclass me in all aspects of Word knowledge (and possibly elsewhere too) - but I had to make a note here because its like watching my parents squabble. Since the dawn of wordprocessors (meaning Wordstar for me) there have been two or three main types of documents - one off small items like letters that are filed and forgotten. Long presentations that are rarely updated, and the ever present and never complete 'monthly reports' that grow and morph and can never be entirely 'cleaned up' for fear of losing something useful - and where they have been in use for several months, or in some cases years, they will have been played around with in the most exciting ways as one or more 'owners' moves them in a different direction for 'ease of use' or because they read about a new function or it got damaged and rebuilt and so on. I would expect that any document that was created before the last major release of Office (wherever your organisation happens to be at the moment) there will be at least one glaring anomaly that everybody works around - be it page numbering, misuse of tab stops, faulty tables, broken multi-level lists, mis-used, mis defined and generally broken styles and, especially, improper use of page breaks and section breaks especially around changes in format (portrait/landscape, columns, charts and so on). To suggest that people have the time, energy or political will to redesign some of these things from scratch is just ignoring the problem and to suggest that the poor sap who originated it was negligent in their handling of esoteria like section breaks (which only a coder can love) is to ignore the possibility it was created before they knew what a section break was (because Word puts them in automatically around the columns then helpfully hides the fact using the defaults you have discussed) The OP said it needed to be simple - ergo the OP should consider spending time and money redesigning the document, make use of some of the later features and generally tidy it up. Cybertaz - pamelia disagreed with you in a fairly polite way and pointed out some problems that she is aware of - get over it and be less pedantic and sensitive next time Pamelia - not everyone has your specific experience and some people DO design documents within the constraints of the tool so remember that next time you imply someone is in the wrong - the 'IMHO' tag is quite useful here. Peter - despite what you say (IMHO) most people DO insert columnation after the body of the document is drafted because some smart ass comes along and says - 'that would look better as two columns and can you add this chart in the middle of page 3 and can we have this part landscape and we need the foreword to use roman numerals and we want a Table of Contents with hyperlinks etc etc etc' Reg - shut the f*k up and do some real work you windbag - just my 5 cents hth RegMigrant "Peter T. Daniels" wrote: But most people _don't_ insert their columniation after the document is finished; they will insert section breaks as they're typing along, and if there's a two-column passage less than one page long, they will likely encounter the problem Pamelia explains how to cure. Your procedure works, as she said, only in the simplest cases. She didn't suggest that what you said is "untrue," only that it's true only a small part of the time. On Jun 3, 6:54 am, CyberTaz wrote: On 6/2/10 10:09 PM, in article a8f3c0034116a@uwe, "Pamelia Caswell via OfficeKB.com" u43222@uwe wrote: CyberTaz wrote: The fact remains, though, that the imposition of Continuous section breaks -- or any other type -- neither inherently disrupts the continuity of Headers or Footers, nor interferes with page numbering. Further, it makes absolutely no difference whether the CSBs span a single empty paragraph or multiple pages... or even whether there are several CSBs on a single page. I very much disagree with you on this point. Try this: in a new document header, add the page number code and set the page numbering to start at 22. Add page breaks until you get to page 26. Add some text, select it, and make it double column. Add a page break after the text. The next page number shown will be 23. You don't seem to realize that you have done nothing here but reinforce the very points I am making. I would never consider doing any such hatchet job for experimental or any other purpose. *Anything* can be expected to fail if it's jerry-rigged to do so. If you want a *valid* test of what I'm saying: 1- Create the new document & populate it with =rand(40,17), 2- Create you Header/Footer & include page numbers, 3- Select as many portions as you wish, each of whatever length you prefer & apply your columnar layout as you go. There will be NO disruption to the H/F or page numbering. This is what the OP was attempting to do. Anything beyond that is irrelevant. If you then want to hack at it in the manner you describe [i.e., "Add a page break after the text."] I can't be held accountable for the consequences.... Nor can the original section breaks. The band-aid fix is to change 23 to 27. But later changes to the document that cause section 3 to cross pages will bring the page number problem back. The better fix is to go to the header for section 3 (& any later sections, as appropriate) and set the page number start value to continuous. The best "fix" is to understand that Word replicates section settings in new sections and to fix it before leaving the page. ... Or to avoid creating such a shambles in the first place. Quite frankly, though, when I have to rework a document that has been mismanaged as badly as what you describe I consider the "best fix" to reconstruct it. You've conveniently snipped the last paragraph of my reply which pertains to every aspect of your response, so I'll reinsert it he I don't doubt that you may have had to "fix such documents", but it isn't the fault of the section breaks that the documents needed fixing. It's how the sections were mangled that caused the breakage. . |
#14
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