FYI Word 2007 users who must have menus

Sorry Larry but you have missed the point. There are many people who share
your criticisms of Word 2007 and we are not stopping anyone expressing their
opinions.

The point they are making is that this has become Larry's endless
iatribe - to the point of being boring and more than a little sad.

Terry Farrell

"Larry" wrote in message
...
There are a lot of people frequenting this group who want to say what I'm
saying, but comments like the above make them afraid to say it. There's
an
orthodoxy shaping up here that is intended to cow anyone from criticizing
Word 2007. I respect all the Word MVPs, but I will continue to criticize
Word 2007 as I see fit.

Suzanne says that Word 2003 is the alternative to 2007. But as everyone
knows, as hardware and software continue to "progress," or at least to
change, it gets harder to keep using old programs, and there is a
continual
pressure to adapt to the most recent programs. How long can people go on
using 2003, before it is left behind by, say, further changes in Word's
programming language, which will force them to use some "descendant" of
Word
2007 that has Word 2007's interface?

Speaking of grousing about Microsoft's latest generation of "innovations"
which includes Word 2007 and Windows Vista, over at the Windows Vista
group
there is fierce outspoken protest against Vista coming from a lot of
parties. However, I'm not recommending that this group become like that
group, where there is a lot of nastiness.

Larry

Well how nice to see that you have crawled out of your hole with your
opinion.

Larry's point is that MS has forced him to do so.

LOL with a double helping of happy faces

Microsoft has not forced you or Larry to do a damn thing idiot.








On Apr 23, 11:47 am, LurfysMa wrote:
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 02:08:38 -0400, "Greg Maxey"

wrote:
Larry,

I have read many of your posts and your disappointment with Word2007 is
clearly evident. To be blunt you are beginning to sound like a broken
record.

I am not thrilled by it either, but there are many features that I like and
the more I use it my initial ire continues to diminish. I have spent a
little time playing with RibbonX custimaztion and while I am far from
proficient, I have been able to create some custom tabs and I am actually
quite satisfied with the result. I sent you an e-mail (or tried) offering
to send you a sample document with some simple ribbon cusotomizations. I
will still do that if you are interested.

I think you have completely missed Larry's point. If you like the new
product or if you are willing to spend hours learning new techniques,
that's great. Larry's point is that MS has forced him to do so.

If he's like me, Word is a tool, not a career. I thank Larry for being
so vocal. I just want the damned thing to work. I hate conversions and
releases because there is always down time and adjustments. I have a
business to run and I want reliable tools that don't require more time
for me to learn them than they require to do the job.

MS is a huge multi-gazillionaire company. They can provide a
compatibility mode for new releases so that I can have it work exactly
like it used to if I want it to.

MS has been arrogant toward its users in the past. Is this another
example?

Do you have a garage? If I recall correctly, Microsoft was born in a
garage. Why don't you design a word processing application in your garage
or similiar small space that satisfies all of your tastes and requirement
and market it? If you pull it off and there really are millions of users
and thousands of companies that feel the same as you then your fortune is
made.

Now that is a really stupid comment.

--
Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:48:48 -0500, "Suzanne S. Barnhill"
wrote:

I suspect that the next version of Word may take some "backward" steps to
accommodate those who were not ready for it. Holding fast with Word 2003 now
and then upgrading to Word 14 may be the best plan.

If that happens, then Larry has a much bigger complaint. If they were
(or are) going to do it, they should have (a) done it now or (b)
announced that they had this backup plan and 2003 would be fully
supported until it was ready.

Now I am getting madder.

--
Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000

On 23 Apr 2007 09:03:55 -0700, Greg Maxey wrote:

Larry,

I can't speak for anyone else, but I assure you that I am not
attempting to scare or cow you or anyone else. I simply said that
your views on Word2007 are already clear to everyone that reads this
group and that you do have the freedom to take steps to find an
alternative solution.

I have certainly expressed some dissatisfaction with Word2007. If I
could have, a few months ago I would have impaled the genious that
killed AutoText Autocomplete tips. I am not enamored with the Ribbon
either, but old menus and toolbars are gone and rather get stuck on it
and have a daily hissy fit I have decided to accept it and move on.
In doing so, I have found some things in Word2007 that I really like.
I would trade AutoText Autocomplete tips for Content Controls any day.

You can bark at the moon if you want to. Personally I don't think
your redundant criticism here is going to change anything. If you
want to keep it up I can ignore it.

And your redundant criticism of his redundant criticism is somehow
less redundant? Or more helpful?

You are at least as much of a contributor to this unproductive thread
as he is. You keep harping on his harping. See any patterns here?


--
Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:10:30 +0100, "Terry Farrell"
wrote:

Sorry Larry but you have missed the point. There are many people who share
your criticisms of Word 2007 and we are not stopping anyone expressing their
opinions.

No? I guess you didn't read all those posts telling Larry that he was
a little cry baby and to go away and design a better mousetrap.

The point they are making is that this has become Larry's endless
iatribe - to the point of being boring and more than a little sad.

Great. Now we get the therapist wing chiming in with their half-assed
personality / social analysis. Larry doesn't sound sad to me. He
sounds ****ed. At least he's not a lemming. Lemmings are very sad.

--
Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000

The only thing apparent to me Johnny Come Late is that you are an
idiot. Oh, I am being redundant again. Sorry.

The only sage advice you have offered so far is to ignore something.
I think I will do that now and ignore you. If you get any madder, may
you could have a hissy fit and feel all better.



On Apr 23, 12:33 pm, LurfysMa wrote:
On 23 Apr 2007 09:03:55 -0700, Greg Maxey wrote:





Larry,

I can't speak for anyone else, but I assure you that I am not
attempting to scare or cow you or anyone else. I simply said that
your views on Word2007 are already clear to everyone that reads this
group and that you do have the freedom to take steps to find an
alternative solution.

I have certainly expressed some dissatisfaction with Word2007. If I
could have, a few months ago I would have impaled the genious that
killed AutoText Autocomplete tips. I am not enamored with the Ribbon
either, but old menus and toolbars are gone and rather get stuck on it
and have a daily hissy fit I have decided to accept it and move on.
In doing so, I have found some things in Word2007 that I really like.
I would trade AutoText Autocomplete tips for Content Controls any day.

You can bark at the moon if you want to. Personally I don't think
your redundant criticism here is going to change anything. If you
want to keep it up I can ignore it.

And your redundant criticism of his redundant criticism is somehow
less redundant? Or more helpful?

You are at least as much of a contributor to this unproductive thread
as he is. You keep harping on his harping. See any patterns here?

--
Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I didn't reply because I didn't want to get into an endless debate on this.
The more time I spend on this topic is less time I spend helping others out.
That's why I'm in the newsgroups, I'm not here to participate in lengthy
debates. :-)

The reason I wanted to refrain from further debate is because I've attempted
to debate topics of a more simplistic nature, such as a single option that
doesn't work they way you think it should, with you in the past and I know
how lengthy those became (I'm not referring to those things that were true
bugs, such as your scrollbar). Plus, whatever I had to say didn't make a
difference - you had your mind set and that was it.

I do believe I answered that question, though, (perhaps I drafted it and
never posted it in light of my reasons above) there are around 350 commands
in Word 2003. I don't know how many there are in Word 2007 but as a rough
estimate, about 100 additional commands. The issue the majority of users
encounter in the old UI is 350 commands is a lot to take in and a lot to
search through to find what they are looking for. So you already have a UI
that is a bit overwhelming, new features and functionality will be added.
Where are the new commands going to go? New menus? New toolbars? More
taskpanes? The UI for Word was designed for 1989 when menus were 4 commands
deep and the applications were outgrowing the UI as it was.

In light of that, some decisions needed to be made. One was a new design and
another was where to put everything. Is there really a need to place seldom
used dialog boxes a few clicks away in the UI by default? You may think they
should but the majority doesn't. And that's the key here, "the majority".

Note that this is also a default. You can right-click Word Options and add
it to your Quick Access Toolbar and then it's just a click away or you can
use the old accelerator command, such as Alt+T+O and display it. You can add
any of the dialog boxes you may use frequently to your Quick Access Toolbar
or use the old accelerators from Word 2003. You can even create your own tab
on the Ribbon if you want with whatever commands you want to add.

In my opinion, this change isn't any different from using slash commands to
navigate an application to using a mouse, menus, and toolbars. I recall
those days, I couldn't imagine how a mouse was going to make me more
efficient than my trusty slash commands! Those were engrained - it was like
my hands had their own "brain" and functioned independently of what I was
doing. Now I need to look at stuff and click?? I can't see how taking my
hands off the keyboard and reaching for a mouse was going to make me work
faster!

And it's no different from the change from WordBasic to VBA. My first
thought was WordBasic was SOOOO simple - why did they make it so much more
difficult??? Objects, Properties, Methods, Events? Who needs this stuff?
What do they have to do with automating tasks in Word??? Then I learned the
power of VBA.

I'm currently learning the power of XML.

Now, I'm off to do what I come here for in the first place, to help others
with Word. :-)

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Beth, after you said that Word 2007 is really good once you get into it, I
asked you how you could justify certain features of Word 2007, such as the
fact that basic controls and dialogs, which used to be two simple steps
away
from the user interface, are now several awkward steps away from the user
interface. You declined to reply, on the basis that it would be a waste
of
breath because anything you said would not be persuasive to me. For you,
who refused to answer my questions and to defend your own position in this
discussion, to accuse me of making cheap shots for making the arguments
for
which you had no answer, is ridiculous.




"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
The "cheap shot", Larry, is spending a limited amount of time using Word
2007, forming quick and non-researched opinions, and then criticizing it
every chance you get.

I'm sure if I spent 5 to 10 minutes using "Larry's Word", and if I were
one
to form quick and non-researched opinions, I'd think it was hideous, a
catastrophe, and a monstrosity - all because I haven't taken the time to
use
it.

What you say takes months to learn really doesn't take that long at all.
Now, I spent months learning about the new features (which is true of any
new version), but I adapted to the UI fairly quickly. FWIW, I've been
using
the Office applications, with the menus/toolbars, since 1985, starting
with
Excel on a Mac. I went from using SuperCalc and WordStar with the slash
commands and I couldn't imagine how using a mouse would help me work
faster
than my trusty keyboard navigation! But once I got the hang of using a
mouse
I never looked back.

The UI you love was designed for 1989, just as the slash command
nagivation
was designed for early computer applications. A lot has changed since
then
and the programs outgrew the menu/toolbar system. I'm surprised they
didn't
do this long ago.

I think the bottom line is, if you prefer to drive your 1950 Chevy with
no
air conditioning, manual steering, manual transmission, and drum brakes,
then by all means, keep driving it. I prefer to drive my new convertible
with air conditioning, automatic steering, split shift transmission (can
switch to automatic or manual), anti-lock brakes, heated leather seats,
GPS,
and 4-disc CD changer. I like my car and I'm tired of someone merely
kicking
the tires and making assumptions about it.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton

"Larry" wrote in message
...
That's a cheap shot, Greg, and it's beside the point. I'm not a
software
designer. My criticisms of the Word 2007 monstrosity stand.

Hey, if MS created two alternative versions of Word, one for people who
really like the design of Word 2007 and really enjoy spending months
figuring out how to use it, and one for people who expect a basic
product
into which they've invested years of their lives to remain in
existence,
then I'd have no problem with that.

Larry



"Greg Maxey" wrote in message
...
Larry,

I have read many of your posts and your disappointment with Word2007
is
clearly evident. To be blunt you are beginning to sound like a broken
record.

I am not thrilled by it either, but there are many features that I
like
and
the more I use it my initial ire continues to diminish. I have spent
a
little time playing with RibbonX custimaztion and while I am far from
proficient, I have been able to create some custom tabs and I am
actually
quite satisfied with the result. I sent you an e-mail (or tried)
offering
to send you a sample document with some simple ribbon cusotomizations.
I
will still do that if you are interested.

Do you have a garage? If I recall correctly, Microsoft was born in a
garage. Why don't you design a word processing application in your
garage
or similiar small space that satisfies all of your tastes and
requirement
and market it? If you pull it off and there really are millions of
users
and thousands of companies that feel the same as you then your fortune
is
made.



--
Greg Maxey/Word MVP
See:
http://gregmaxey.mvps.org/word_tips.htm
For some helpful tips using Word.


Larry wrote:
Here's hoping that millions of users and thousands of companies
react
as you have done, since apparently that is the only thing that will
persuade the people at Microsoft what a hideous catastrophe Word
2007
is.

Larry




"CS Hayes" wrote in message
...
FYI again

I am not very interested in old tool bars for new programs. I have
been using 2007 trial and sadly I'm not impressed. I do understand
that I will have to learn this software to be competitive in todays
workforce but I don't like it. I've spent years learning how to
manipulate software via menus and now I have to relearn how to do
it
via ribbons (which is a fancy word for "over sized tool bar.") I'm
going to go to 2003 on my system once the trial runs out.

Here is an interesting idea: since someone can program a new tool
bar for 2007 could someone program an interface for language
compatibility with .NET for VB6? I think this would be something a
lot of people would be interested in.
--
Chris Hayes
Still a beginner (only 12 years)


"Cindy M." wrote:

Hi Chris,

And there's a more sophisticated tool that's just come out here.
It
includes what the Chinese is offering (the "Lite" version), plus
one that lets you customize the menus, create your own toolbars,
and add your own macros and AutoText. The toolbar can also be
floated.

What's more, you can save each set of customizations - including
where the toolbars are located - in individual documents.

It costs 19.95 for a single license, with discounts for volume
licenses. And you can get 5% off by using the coupon code MVPCINDY

http://www.toolbartoggle.com

For those of you who must have the drop down menus fear no more.

A chinese developer has created an Add In for Office and it's
$29.00 (those folks are becoming quite the capitalists...)

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130635/article.html

Where there's a need there's a dollar.


Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 17
2005) http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow
question or reply in the newsgroup and not by e-mail :-)

What are you talking about? Larry hasn't moved beyond Word 97. And based on
the several years I've been around these newsgroups, and him, I've never
seen anyone force him to do anything he doesn't want to do. ;-)

"LurfysMa" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 02:08:38 -0400, "Greg Maxey"
wrote:

I think you have completely missed Larry's point. If you like the new
product or if you are willing to spend hours learning new techniques,
that's great. Larry's point is that MS has forced him to do so.

On 23 Apr 2007 09:42:02 -0700, Greg Maxey wrote:

The only thing apparent to me Johnny Come Late is that you are an
idiot. Oh, I am being redundant again. Sorry.

The only sage advice you have offered so far is to ignore something.
I think I will do that now and ignore you. If you get any madder, may
you could have a hissy fit and feel all better.

You seem to be the one down on the floor rolling around, kicking your
feet, and holding your breath. ;-)

--
Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000

So far, you have added absolutely nothing in the way of debate. I've been
reading Larry's opinions for far too long (it isn't just in this thread). If
you read back through the newsgroup, you will see that I am not in total
disagreement with him either and he certainly has my understanding and
sympathy.

The point I made is that he has made the same point repeatedly: he doesn't
like the new interface.

This newsgroup is to help others with problems or queries about all versions
of Word: Larry doesn't seem to want help. There is a time when enough is
enough.

How you deduced me as a "half-assed personality / social analysis" from one
statement is clever. It make me happy. And what the hell have lemmings to do
with this?

Terry Farrell

"LurfysMa" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:10:30 +0100, "Terry Farrell"
wrote:

Sorry Larry but you have missed the point. There are many people who share
your criticisms of Word 2007 and we are not stopping anyone expressing
their
opinions.

No? I guess you didn't read all those posts telling Larry that he was
a little cry baby and to go away and design a better mousetrap.

The point they are making is that this has become Larry's endless
iatribe - to the point of being boring and more than a little sad.

Great. Now we get the therapist wing chiming in with their half-assed
personality / social analysis. Larry doesn't sound sad to me. He
sounds ****ed. At least he's not a lemming. Lemmings are very sad.

--
Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000