How long........

How long do I have to be using Access before I can acomplish a simple task
without taking 6 hours to do it???

Just curious

"Rots o Ruck ..Just Courious"
I have been at this for about 9 years and guess what.
I still haven't got it.
I use to program in dBase III, and Clipper but this has got my goat.


"Jeffrey K. Ries" wrote in message
...
How long do I have to be using Access before I can acomplish a simple task
without taking 6 hours to do it???

Just curious

Yes, I can see how this can be a real time saver for the end user, but it is
just a migraine for me.

"JustMe" wrote in message
...
"Rots o Ruck ..Just Courious"
I have been at this for about 9 years and guess what.
I still haven't got it.
I use to program in dBase III, and Clipper but this has got my goat.


"Jeffrey K. Ries" wrote in message
...
How long do I have to be using Access before I can acomplish a simple
task
without taking 6 hours to do it???

Just curious

Bah, started using Access 95, and in 6 months, I was
cruising.

Granted, that was 7 years ago, and I've learned alot since
then, and I'm still learning. But, things get easier, and
you can reuse alot of things.

But, it still takes a good 4 hours or so to do most
reports. That's just a estimate, but it averages out to
there.

Remember, Rome wasn't built in a day.

Chris Nebinger


-----Original Message-----
Yes, I can see how this can be a real time saver for the
end user, but it is
just a migraine for me.

"JustMe" wrote in message
.. .
"Rots o Ruck ..Just Courious"
I have been at this for about 9 years and guess what.
I still haven't got it.
I use to program in dBase III, and Clipper but this has
got my goat.


"Jeffrey K. Ries" wrote in
message
...
How long do I have to be using Access before I can
acomplish a simple
task
without taking 6 hours to do it???

Just curious






.

"Jeffrey K. Ries" wrote in message
...
How long do I have to be using Access before I can acomplish a simple task
without taking 6 hours to do it???

Just curious

I guess the real question is what do you mean by a simple task?

I know that at the local college they offer full courses on how to use
Excel. And, also courses on using Microsoft word. I gone into company's and
meet people who develop full time all day long just using Microsoft word.

So,to learn Excel, you can read some books..and take a few courses. I
suppose the same would apply also to ms-access.

You probably should read a book, or consider taking a course. I mean, if
people need courses for Excel..then they certainly will need some help for
ms-access. You have to realize that ms-access is somewhat different then the
rest of the applications in Microsoft office. Ms-access has a much steeper
learning curve then say word, or excel. Further, with word, or excel you
can much more easily start to play around and lean things. This is NOT the
case with access. So, on the farm, you can start to play with a car..and
learn to drive. However, it is un-likely you can grab a air plane, and start
to fly it. (you need some help with the plane..but with the car..you don't
need that much help).

I seen some real incredible access applications created, and the creator of
that application DID NOT know how to write VB code. So, you can do some real
incredible stuff without learning to write any code. However, the creator of
that application OBVIOUSLY DID understand data modeling. That persons was
lucky, very smart, or likely did what most people do.......get a book on
using ms-access!

Further, as you lean the ms-access product, there is a number of areas that
you can spend a lot of time on, and in fact books have been written on each
of these disciplines. So, there is a lot of deep skilled things you can
learn..and they all apply to ms-access

Some a

** VB - code. Leaning how to write VB code can be a great asset to using
ms-access. Often, for many tasks, you will need to write a series of steps
to instruct the computer what to do. Since ms-access is used to create
information systems..then often those systems will need to automate a series
of steps. So, you accept an order..and then the inventory needs to be
updated. Thus, often data processing will require some steps. In most
cases..these "steps" will thus require you to write some code. (or, your
users will have to do more steps...so, after creating an order..you might
have to open up a inventory form..and reduce the items that you just
removed).

** Data modeling. As mentioned, this is perhaps the #1 skill you need to
learn. Thus, it is easy to say you want to make a invoice..but MOST
important here is how your data model will look BEFORE you even try to
create the invoice. This takes a bit of skill and learn.

** SQL. The query language to grab data form tables is sql. I still use the
query builder to write the sql for me, but understanding how to join tables
together is really a requirement for reports..and just general data
retrieval. Becoming proficient with sql an take a long time to learn.

So, each one of the above disciplines has books written about. And, then you
need to actually learn how to use ms-access. In other words, each part like
the forms builder, the report builder etc is rather complex..and in fact
each part can be more work then learning Word.

Without question, right out of the box...you can use the wizards and tools
to build some useful things. In this regards..ms-access is quite easy to
use..and yet powerful.

However, if you start needed to do something with any complexity...you got
some learning to do.


So, how long? Well..how simple is what you are trying to accomplish?

I mean, lets build a machine to fly...sounds simple to me???

--
Albert D. Kallal (MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada

http://www.attcanada.net/~kallal.msn

5 minutes or less to create a simple Table and start data entry.

OTOH, I have been working (2-3 days) a week for 1.5 years on a database and
I am still going.

It depends on what you meant by "simple".

--
HTH
Van T. Dinh
MVP (Access)


"Jeffrey K. Ries" wrote in message
...
How long do I have to be using Access before I can acomplish a simple task
without taking 6 hours to do it???

Just curious

That depends ...

1. What is your business background? Ever done any programming before
Access?
2. What preparation/learning steps have you taken regarding learning
Access? Studied and completed the tasks in a good beginner's book? Taken
a course?

Like the other component programs in Office, Access is a very powerful tool.
Yes, it is possible to open the box, install the software and create a table
and a form or two. But, if you want to create a database application with
more than that, Access has an additional "requirement" that Word, Excel and
PowerPoint do not have: Normalized Data ("Basically, it's the process of
efficiently organizing data in a database. There are two goals of the
normalization process: eliminate redundant data (for example, storing the
same data in more than one table) and ensure data dependencies make sense
(only storing related data in a table).")
http://databases.about.com/library/weekly/aa080501a.htm and
http://databases.about.com/library/weekly/aa081901a.htm

It is also tempting to design a database application by deciding on the
required forms and nifty control elements on those forms before the data
structures have been designed. Without a normalized database, most
everything *does* take longer! With a normalized database, the user
interface practically designs itself, less code is usually required and
queries/reports are much simpler.

--

Cheryl Fischer, MVP Microsoft Access
Law/Sys Associates, Houston, TX


"Jeffrey K. Ries" wrote in message
...
How long do I have to be using Access before I can acomplish a simple task
without taking 6 hours to do it???

Just curious

"Albert D. Kallal" wrote in message
...
"Jeffrey K. Ries" wrote in message
...
How long do I have to be using Access before I can acomplish a simple
task
without taking 6 hours to do it???

Just curious

I guess the real question is what do you mean by a simple task?

I know that at the local college they offer full courses on how to use
Excel. And, also courses on using Microsoft word. I gone into company's
and
meet people who develop full time all day long just using Microsoft word.

So,to learn Excel, you can read some books..and take a few courses. I
suppose the same would apply also to ms-access.

I would have to disagree there. I would never say that I am either a Word or
Excel expert but I am comfortable in both environments and if I need to
accomplish something I can usually work it out using the Help files. However
for Access is a different thing altogether. If I need to do something new my
first port of call is the Help files but almost always I don't understand
what they are trying to say - both the terminology and concepts are usually
over my head. Therefore I come here and read other posts and occasionally
ask a question for myself (I have enough questions to want to post much more
frequently but I don't want to **** anyone off!").

I have no idea what I would do without newsgroups and the experts who live
here!



Gavin

Hi Jeffrey -

I feel your pain! I started in Access in version 2.0 (1997ish). I wrote some databases, which are still in use - but now, I look at them, and I am embarrassed! I could make them much more efficient now. But, I just played around, got a very generic book (Using Office 97, or something to that effect), and little by little, learned what I needed to accomplish.

So, don't be discouraged - like someone else said, come to the newsgroups, if you have a question, and just keep playing with it. Itg is so worth it in the long run!

Good Luck...

----- Jeffrey K. Ries wrote: -----

How long do I have to be using Access before I can acomplish a simple task
without taking 6 hours to do it???

Just curious