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#21
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When the Canon BubbleJets first appeared, I was tempted to get one.. the guy
in the store had a page printed that looked really good.. I asked for a demo and the paper went through nearly all of it.. )).. he assured me that it was the kind of paper that had been placed in the machine.. I could see that for myself.. the problem was that paper had been placed in it at all.. ))))))) That experience ensured that I never again considered Canon Printers.. my last encounter with a Canon printer was a BJC 4400 that belonged to a friend.. the cartridge carrier was a constant source of amusement (NOT) and constantly tried to print more than one page at a time, so no change there.. maybe they have improved since then, but I will not take a chance.. this friend then bought an Epson.. some people just can't be helped.. (F)Lexmark printers, in my opinion (and as the cat in the movie 'Babe' would say) have no purpose.. they take up another printers space.. HP rocks.. HP for president (my 5150 is undoubtedly more intelligent than the incumbent).. Mike "Ron Cohen" wrote in message ... Mike H. I have multiple Canon printers, s820's, i950 and iP4000. These are outstanding printers and I've never had any problems with multiple feeds on any of them. I couldn't say that about my HP 720 that is now collecting dust in the corner. The worst machine I've ever used (for misfeeding) is my Lexmark E312 laser. Nice little printer, but the multiple feeds are horrible. My old HP IIIP was also pretty bad about multiple feeds. As to ink mileage, I print a lot of photos. With my Canon printers I will usually get between 45-50 full sheets (8.5 x 11) before the first low ink warning appears. The other tanks will usually be partially to nearly full. That's a lot of ink mileage for very, very little money considering I refill. Based on what I paid for the bulk ink, my per page ink cost is 1.2¢. Barely more than a penny. I think you may be confusing the very low end Canons which use an integrated printhead similar to HP or Lexmark. Canon printers which use individual ink tanks are great printers. -- Ron Cohen "Mike Hall" wrote in message ... JoAnn Don't you just love Canon printers that feed multiple sheets through at one time.. the cute little cartridges that don't last for the time it takes to pee.. messages that inform you that due to the lack of magenta, you're not going to print in black either.. Mike (avid member of the HP Appreciation Society } "JoAnn Paules" wrote in message ... Been there- tried that. YUCK!! Messy and the quality really sucked. Everything turned to shades of grey. And that was in the first printer we owned - a Canon. Never again will we (1) buy refill kits or (2) buy a Canon. HPs do rock! -- JoAnn Paules MVP Microsoft [Publisher] "Mike Koewler" wrote in message ... I have a Canon i860 that seems to drink ink. I like the job it does, but the ink costs are digging into my wallet. I've read posts about refilling the containers, some good and some bad. Does anyone have any long-term experiences to relate? Does using a refill system cause problems with the print head down the road? Do you have a system you recommend? Are they messy? Merry Christmas Mike --- AVG reports Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/9/2004 |
#22
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Hi Mike Koewler ),
in the newsgroups you posted: || I have a Canon i860 that seems to drink ink. I like the job it does, || but the ink costs are digging into my wallet. I've read posts about || refilling the containers, some good and some bad. Does anyone have || any long-term experiences to relate? Does using a refill system cause || problems with the print head down the road? Do you have a system you || recommend? Are they messy? FWIW, I am anti-refill. -- Brian Kvalheim Microsoft Publisher MVP http://www.publishermvps.com ~pay it forward~ This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. |
#23
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Mike,
Thanks for your comments and insight. You read my message well. In March of 2001 I bought a Lexmark Z52 Color Inkjet. I use it for black and white documents and black and white documents with color graphics (charts and graphs) and clip art. The printer has done a very nice job for those tasks. However, it does use a lot of ink. For the last three and a half years I have had trouble free printing. The November 2000 issue of PC World gave the Lexmark Z52 a decent review. A few months ago my wife and I bought a HP psc 2175 which we like very well. Thanks again, Lee "Mike Hall" wrote in message ... General way they are put together.. never found one that was anything like reliable.. some of the worst print quality that I have ever seen.. they never do well in comparison tests.. AND.. Lexmark were responsible for the IBM printers.. and as an IBM service engineer, I was expected to fix them.. if you have ever heard the expression 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', well I will add a new one to that.. 'don't fix what keeps breaking'.. I assume that you have a Lexmark printer/work for Lexmark/have asked Santa for a Lexmark (delete as applicable).. Mike "Lee Rich" wrote in message ... Mike, I am curious and would like to know what are the objections to the Lexmark line of printers. What are the negatives that would prevent you from buying a Lexmark? Thank you in advance for your help and comments, Lee |
#24
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While waiting for decisions from his 6 university choices, Ed sees a
message from Lee Rich . On it is written: I am curious and would like to know what are the objections to the Lexmark line of printers. What are the negatives that would prevent you from buying a Lexmark? - Print speed - Print quality - Build quality - Driver quality I have had parts of Lexmark inkjets break off when I was pulling gently to clear a paper jam. Cheap plastic interiors that don't stand up to any wear at all. And the interface on the outside is clunky. You never know when it's on or off. And I most certainly do not want the default setting to have a disembodied (American) voice shouting "PRINTING STARTED" and "PRINTING COMPLETE". -- Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher http://www.mvps.org/the_nerd/ Before reading this message, view the disclaimer: http://mvps.org/the_nerd/disclaim.htm |
#25
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While waiting for decisions from his 6 university choices, Ed sees a
message from JoAnn Paules . On it is written: Been there- tried that. YUCK!! Messy and the quality really sucked. Everything turned to shades of grey. And that was in the first printer we owned - a Canon. Never again will we (1) buy refill kits or (2) buy a Canon. HPs do rock! I'll reiterate that - it's exactly the experience I had with mine. Either refills killed the printer or the printer died from being crap - but either way I'm not doing Canons or refills for a while (not planning on buying a new printer for a while anyway, so it's entirely hypothetical) -- Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher http://www.mvps.org/the_nerd/ Before reading this message, view the disclaimer: http://mvps.org/the_nerd/disclaim.htm |
#26
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Exactly! I know the printer wasn't top of the line but that refill kit
coincided with the death of the printer. Not sure if it *caused* it but we decided it just isn't worth saving pennies if it's going to cost you the price of another printer. -- JoAnn Paules MVP Microsoft [Publisher] "Ed Bennett" wrote in message ... While waiting for decisions from his 6 university choices, Ed sees a message from JoAnn Paules . On it is written: Been there- tried that. YUCK!! Messy and the quality really sucked. Everything turned to shades of grey. And that was in the first printer we owned - a Canon. Never again will we (1) buy refill kits or (2) buy a Canon. HPs do rock! I'll reiterate that - it's exactly the experience I had with mine. Either refills killed the printer or the printer died from being crap - but either way I'm not doing Canons or refills for a while (not planning on buying a new printer for a while anyway, so it's entirely hypothetical) -- Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher http://www.mvps.org/the_nerd/ Before reading this message, view the disclaimer: http://mvps.org/the_nerd/disclaim.htm |
#27
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One of the prime reasons for buying an HP is that one gets a new printhead
at each cartridge, thereby retaining print quality.. it also has to be said that HP technology has ensured that their printers are economical in use.. if a printer is so heavy on ink that refills are considered, I would trash the printer and buy an HP.. The refill people maintain that their ink is exactly the same, but experience has shown me that the depth of color is lacking, and it dries way too slow when used at any speed and especially fast draft on an HP.. that and the fact that printing ink is next to impossible to remove from clothes, hands etc.. JoAnn, they will all learn in time.. "JoAnn Paules" wrote in message ... Exactly! I know the printer wasn't top of the line but that refill kit coincided with the death of the printer. Not sure if it *caused* it but we decided it just isn't worth saving pennies if it's going to cost you the price of another printer. -- JoAnn Paules MVP Microsoft [Publisher] "Ed Bennett" wrote in message ... While waiting for decisions from his 6 university choices, Ed sees a message from JoAnn Paules . On it is written: Been there- tried that. YUCK!! Messy and the quality really sucked. Everything turned to shades of grey. And that was in the first printer we owned - a Canon. Never again will we (1) buy refill kits or (2) buy a Canon. HPs do rock! I'll reiterate that - it's exactly the experience I had with mine. Either refills killed the printer or the printer died from being crap - but either way I'm not doing Canons or refills for a while (not planning on buying a new printer for a while anyway, so it's entirely hypothetical) -- Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher http://www.mvps.org/the_nerd/ Before reading this message, view the disclaimer: http://mvps.org/the_nerd/disclaim.htm |
#28
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We can only hope............ ;-)
-- JoAnn Paules MVP Microsoft [Publisher] "Mike Hall" wrote in message ... One of the prime reasons for buying an HP is that one gets a new printhead at each cartridge, thereby retaining print quality.. it also has to be said that HP technology has ensured that their printers are economical in use.. if a printer is so heavy on ink that refills are considered, I would trash the printer and buy an HP.. The refill people maintain that their ink is exactly the same, but experience has shown me that the depth of color is lacking, and it dries way too slow when used at any speed and especially fast draft on an HP.. that and the fact that printing ink is next to impossible to remove from clothes, hands etc.. JoAnn, they will all learn in time.. "JoAnn Paules" wrote in message ... Exactly! I know the printer wasn't top of the line but that refill kit coincided with the death of the printer. Not sure if it *caused* it but we decided it just isn't worth saving pennies if it's going to cost you the price of another printer. -- JoAnn Paules MVP Microsoft [Publisher] "Ed Bennett" wrote in message ... While waiting for decisions from his 6 university choices, Ed sees a message from JoAnn Paules . On it is written: Been there- tried that. YUCK!! Messy and the quality really sucked. Everything turned to shades of grey. And that was in the first printer we owned - a Canon. Never again will we (1) buy refill kits or (2) buy a Canon. HPs do rock! I'll reiterate that - it's exactly the experience I had with mine. Either refills killed the printer or the printer died from being crap - but either way I'm not doing Canons or refills for a while (not planning on buying a new printer for a while anyway, so it's entirely hypothetical) -- Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher http://www.mvps.org/the_nerd/ Before reading this message, view the disclaimer: http://mvps.org/the_nerd/disclaim.htm |
#29
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For the record:
I don't care about color fidelity. If I was using the printer to create color proofs, I wouldn't be using this printer! This is an el-cheapo printer used to print el-cheapo outputs. If refilling the tanks isn't any messier than coloring Easter eggs, I can live with the mess. :-) Mike Mike Hall wrote: One of the prime reasons for buying an HP is that one gets a new printhead at each cartridge, thereby retaining print quality.. it also has to be said that HP technology has ensured that their printers are economical in use.. if a printer is so heavy on ink that refills are considered, I would trash the printer and buy an HP.. The refill people maintain that their ink is exactly the same, but experience has shown me that the depth of color is lacking, and it dries way too slow when used at any speed and especially fast draft on an HP.. that and the fact that printing ink is next to impossible to remove from clothes, hands etc.. JoAnn, they will all learn in time.. "JoAnn Paules" wrote in message ... Exactly! I know the printer wasn't top of the line but that refill kit coincided with the death of the printer. Not sure if it *caused* it but we decided it just isn't worth saving pennies if it's going to cost you the price of another printer. -- JoAnn Paules MVP Microsoft [Publisher] "Ed Bennett" wrote in message ... While waiting for decisions from his 6 university choices, Ed sees a message from JoAnn Paules . On it is written: Been there- tried that. YUCK!! Messy and the quality really sucked. Everything turned to shades of grey. And that was in the first printer we owned - a Canon. Never again will we (1) buy refill kits or (2) buy a Canon. HPs do rock! I'll reiterate that - it's exactly the experience I had with mine. Either refills killed the printer or the printer died from being crap - but either way I'm not doing Canons or refills for a while (not planning on buying a new printer for a while anyway, so it's entirely hypothetical) -- Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher http://www.mvps.org/the_nerd/ Before reading this message, view the disclaimer: http://mvps.org/the_nerd/disclaim.htm |
#30
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I know this thread should really be on comp.periphs.printers but who said we
have to always follow the rules. When it comes to refilling it seems there are about as many arguments on that subject as on politics or religion. For a low usage application, refilling may not be the best choice and with some printers, i.e. Lexmark or HP it may not be successful due to the design of the printhead. However for me and other Canon (and Epson) users, who do a lot of photo printing the cost of ink would be astronomical if we didn't refill. There are several points to keep in mind about refilling and the most important is to use a quality ink from a reliable source. There is no evidence that refilling Canon printers with quality ink contributes to print head failure. If you read the printers newsgroup, there are as many complaints about printhead failures with OEM inks as with third party inks. Most of the failures are with circuitry and not as a result of clogs from the inks. In the case of my Canon s820 and i950 printers, they use six individual tanks and my iP4000 uses five. These cartridges cost about $12 each or $72 per set for a six tank setup or $60 for the five tank models. An 8oz bottle of ink will refill over 40 Canon BCI-6 cartridges. The cost of an entire set of inks - all six colors, CMYK, photo cyan and photo magenta - is about $60 including s&h. That's less than the cost of a single set of OEM tanks. I've been refilling for several years on multiple printers and so far none of the printers has failed or had any problems as a result of refilling. But lets assume that refilling did kill the printer. If I only got two successful refills before a printhead failure occurs, I'm still dollars ahead for two reasons. First a replacement printhead costs about $80. Second a brand new printer i.e. iP4000 only costs around $125 depending on the source. I paid less than that. The new printer would also come with a new set of ink tanks and that alone is worth at least $60. If I refill three or more times then the savings really begin to add up. How many refills have I done? Too many to even count. Ink consumption on Canons is on the low side compared to other inkjets, but using OEM tanks there is no way I'd ever have been able to print the amounts of photos that I do. Let's go back to that set of 8oz bulk inks. Each bottle will refill over 40 cartridges or 240 tanks if the entire set of all colors are considered at a total cost of $60.00. 240 Canon BCI-6 cartridges would cost $2880.00. For the record, I've refilled way more than that. Done properly, refilling is easy and is not messy. At a leisurely pace, I can refill an entire set of BCI-6 tanks in less than ten minutes. When it comes to inkjets, ink is only one part of the equation. Paper is the other critical element. There are two types of photo papers commonly used. Microporous, also known as instant dry, is highly resistant to any kind of water damage. The sheets can immediately be handled and are resistant to fingerprints and moisture damage, but are reported to be more prone to fading although I've not experienced any fading on the prints I've made. The other paper type is Swellable Polymer which has a different coating than microporous. These papers are not resistant to moisture, take time to dry and are susceptible to damage from handling. However, they are reported to be more fade resistant. I use both types but prefer microporous because of its durability. For plain paper printing most any paper will work, but papers specified for inkjet usage do give better results than multi-purpose or copy paper. I have a short pdf file (created from Publisher 2002) that shows how easy it is to refill a Canon BCI-6 or BCI-3 cartridge. The file is 125k. If anyone wants a copy, please send me a private email -- Ron Cohen "Mike Hall" wrote in message ... One of the prime reasons for buying an HP is that one gets a new printhead at each cartridge, thereby retaining print quality.. it also has to be said that HP technology has ensured that their printers are economical in use.. if a printer is so heavy on ink that refills are considered, I would trash the printer and buy an HP.. The refill people maintain that their ink is exactly the same, but experience has shown me that the depth of color is lacking, and it dries way too slow when used at any speed and especially fast draft on an HP.. that and the fact that printing ink is next to impossible to remove from clothes, hands etc.. JoAnn, they will all learn in time.. "JoAnn Paules" wrote in message ... Exactly! I know the printer wasn't top of the line but that refill kit coincided with the death of the printer. Not sure if it *caused* it but we decided it just isn't worth saving pennies if it's going to cost you the price of another printer. -- JoAnn Paules MVP Microsoft [Publisher] "Ed Bennett" wrote in message ... While waiting for decisions from his 6 university choices, Ed sees a message from JoAnn Paules . On it is written: Been there- tried that. YUCK!! Messy and the quality really sucked. Everything turned to shades of grey. And that was in the first printer we owned - a Canon. Never again will we (1) buy refill kits or (2) buy a Canon. HPs do rock! I'll reiterate that - it's exactly the experience I had with mine. Either refills killed the printer or the printer died from being crap - but either way I'm not doing Canons or refills for a while (not planning on buying a new printer for a while anyway, so it's entirely hypothetical) -- Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher http://www.mvps.org/the_nerd/ Before reading this message, view the disclaimer: http://mvps.org/the_nerd/disclaim.htm --- AVG reports Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/9/2004 |
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