W2K: labels thrown "out of whack" when cell or table margins changed? How to fix ... ?

Check that in the FilePrint dialog, the Scale to paper size option is set
to "No scaling"

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
Can you spell this out a bit? I read and re-read, but wasn't sure what
exactly you are seeing. Is the extra row at the very end of the output,
and what exactly does it contain (a duplicate of the last row of labels?)

Yes, certainly. And thanks for the question; it helped to look at this
from a different angles to try to figure out what's wrong.

Admittedly, I've not done many mail merges in Word. All that I used to do
in my years as a word-processor when WP was the standard. I hadn't
actually looked at the data, so hadn't realized that I was just getting
one record repeated over and over g. My extensive WP experience helped
out and I remembered that there, too, we had to put and "End Record" field
in. Once I did that, this Word mail merge worked properly in that way,
too.

So here's the problem. 5167 has 4 columns of 20 rows (for a total of 80
labels). The original target label file has the standard 8x20. But the
merged docts all come out at 8x21! I don't know how to fix this.

I just thought of this, here's what in each cell in the original target
label file:

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PNNext Record

I bet you that this will make much clearer what I'm doing wrong. Each and
every cell has the above coding but I'm not sure if this is completely
right. Perhaps I'm missing something here, too, that is generating labels
with an incorrect # of rows.

In WP, I vaguely remember that the last field on the page needed an
extra code (next record, or end record, or somesuch). Is this the same
for Word?

In Word 2000, the main thing to get right is "no { NEXT } field in the
first label cell on the sheet, one { NEXT } field at the beginning of
each label cell after that", bearing in mind that some cells in some
layouts - such as 5167 - have "spacer" columns of cells that should not
have anything in them.

I might have misunderstood the above paragraph, but when I removed the
"Next Record" (doesn't show up as "{ NEXT }" for me. I'm using an
Excel file that I used to put in the fields, btw), in the first cell, the
first 2 cells in the merged label output were repeated. So that's not
what you're referring to, obviously g.

Re the spacer columns, yes. There is nothing in those columns at all and
they remain empty after the merge. So okay there.

Is it possible to tell what I'm doing wrong judging from the coding
above??

Thanks. D

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
Okay, however non-intuitive this solution would be, it is doing the job,
thank goodness. I'm still having one problem. I'm getting an extra row
at the bottom of the merged end document. The original target document
has the correct spacing at the bottom, but the merged doct. puts in an
extra row. In WP, I vaguely remember that the last field on the page
needed an extra code (next record, or end record, or somesuch). Is this
the same for Word? Pls advise. D

"Doug Robbins - Word MVP" wrote in message
...
Leave labels alone and achieve the space that you are after by changing
the formatting of paragraphs - Left and Right Indent, Space Before and
Space After.

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
I absolutely must have cell margins that are at about 0.05" around the
insides of Avery-sized labels #5167. Before changing the margins, the
pages of labels are aligned and positioned correctly. The instant I
change them to 0.05", the rows all become misaligned and a standard
sheet has a row pushed off to the next page. About halfway throught
the first page, the labels contents are printing half off the labels.

The text before and after the merge in no way is too much for each
cell and I made sure that the "automatically resize to fit contents"
option is not selected in the table options of the table properties so
I'm at a loss to figure out what is going on. The labels are not
always printing correctly from sheet to sheet as, I'm sure most with
experience have found, different batches of labels come out slight
differently placed. I've not done much mail merge or label work as was
the case back in my old word-processing days, but at the time I had
working templates with table margins that worked for any label batches
that came along. Through trial and error one eventually finds the
margins that work to the maximums of label production offset and 0.05"
is about the minimum to accommodate these offsets. Certainly, 0.08"
(tEventually a margin is found that accommodates all slight variations
between label stocks. But if I can't change the margins and retain
the integrity of labels, then I'm stuck. Does anyone know what to do
in this situation? I don't know what else to look at. 0.05" is not
even my preference for label margins. In WP days, I'd use the standard
WP size of 0.05" and I used to use 5167 even back then.

Stuck and hoping someone here knows a good solution to this. Thanks!
D

True lol. But it's good to have a reserve solution for when the first
one ends up not working at some point.

I agree. Typically it depends on whether you're doing a one-off (you just
need to get it done) or are trying to get your infrastructure right for
multiple-easy-to-use repeats.

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
IMO if it works, stick with it.

True lol. But it's good to have a reserve solution for when the first
one ends up not working at some point. I experimented with the paragraph
spacing, btw, in a new Word table doct. I happened to be creating and the
paragraph spacing didn't work there (case in point). Fortunately, cell
margin editing could be done in that case since it was not a merge doct.
with a small tricky label, etc. Anyway, it's always good to have more
than one way of doing something.

Something I noticed when experimenting with this was that the Word
display was quite unstable when I modified the cell margins - i.e. it
seemed to be updating continually. That could be just a problem with the
display drivers, especially I as use a virtual machine to go back to the
older versions of Word,, but it could also be a sign that the feature (or
its implementation) requires a lot of processing.

That's what that slight flickering must have been ... ! I couldn't figure
out what that was though it was so slight that I thought it might be my
system having too much to process at once besides Word.

Anyway, thanks. Close to fixing this, there's just the issue of the extra
row (as per the other message in this thread). Cheers. D

Peter Jamieson
"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
As far as I can tell, when you adjust the cell margin, Word actually
modifies the cell size (or at least, the height - I haven't even
considered the width). It wouldn't surprise me to learn that this is a
well-known "feature".

I had to switch to using points as my measurement unit to see the
changes with any precision, but with this label layout, before changing
the cell margins, the first line of text in the first row was at 36pt
according to the display in the status bar, and and the first line of
the second row was at 72pt.

After changing the cell margins to 0.05in, the equivalent values were
39.6pt and 79pt, and the cells were pushed over to the next page.
Selecting the table and changing the row height to 32.4pt to compensate
was enought to get all the labels back on one page, but whether it's
what you need is another question.

Peter Jamieson

Interesting, thank you! I"ll definitely take a look at this. Doug's
recommendation involving changing spacing to the left and right of, and
before and after paragraphs _seems_ to be working so far. Though this
not something one would intuitively think of as as a solution (who would
ever think of a cell in terms of a paragraph?), I'm just glad that
something works. But I'll check into your solution above. I always
learn something new when I try out a new technique.

Thanks. D

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
I absolutely must have cell margins that are at about 0.05" around the
insides of Avery-sized labels #5167. Before changing the margins, the
pages of labels are aligned and positioned correctly. The instant I
change them to 0.05", the rows all become misaligned and a standard
sheet has a row pushed off to the next page. About halfway throught
the first page, the labels contents are printing half off the labels.

The text before and after the merge in no way is too much for each
cell and I made sure that the "automatically resize to fit contents"
option is not selected in the table options of the table properties so
I'm at a loss to figure out what is going on. The labels are not
always printing correctly from sheet to sheet as, I'm sure most with
experience have found, different batches of labels come out slight
differently placed. I've not done much mail merge or label work as was
the case back in my old word-processing days, but at the time I had
working templates with table margins that worked for any label batches
that came along. Through trial and error one eventually finds the
margins that work to the maximums of label production offset and 0.05"
is about the minimum to accommodate these offsets. Certainly, 0.08"
(tEventually a margin is found that accommodates all slight variations
between label stocks. But if I can't change the margins and retain
the integrity of labels, then I'm stuck. Does anyone know what to do
in this situation? I don't know what else to look at. 0.05" is not
even my preference for label margins. In WP days, I'd use the standard
WP size of 0.05" and I used to use 5167 even back then.

Stuck and hoping someone here knows a good solution to this. Thanks!
D

"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
So here's the problem. 5167 has 4 columns of 20 rows (for a total of 80
labels). The original target label file has the standard 8x20. But the
merged docts all come out at 8x21! I don't know how to fix this.

The layout I get when I choose the 5167 option is 4x20. My best guess is
that at some point along the way, you may have selected a table row and
duplicated it by accident to make a 4x21 layout.

I start out with an 4x20 doct. as well. I put a typo there, btw, the end
result comes out 4x21, not 8x21! So my main word doct. (yes, or "template",
I never have kept the terms straight, Word or not), starts out as 4x20 but
the merged doct. comes out 4x21 each time. I've re-created the template 3
times now and not once did I duplicate a table row, so don't know why this
additional row is sneaking in g.

To see what's happening, it may help to show the table gridlines - try
Table|Gridlines.

Always have the table gridlines showing, btw. Thanks.

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PNNext Record

Okay, Word is opposite in that way. The Next Record appears at the top
of the 2nd record onwards rather than at the end of the first record
onwards, except for the last record. Got it.

Some Word-oriented terminology:
a. Mail Merge Main Document: the layout (or "template", but that does not
necessarily mean a Word .dot template) - i.e. how you want your output to
look, and where to put each item of data
b. Mail Merge Data Source - the data you are going to merge into the Mail
Merge Main Document
c. Mail Merge Destination - could be a Destination Document or a
Destination Printer, etc.

Yeah-yeah lol. I've never kept the terms straight. I just know myself
what I'm working with even after all these years of doing other work besides
word-processing g. It's like riding a bike, though, it all comes back to
one even if the app is a different one.

In the Mail Merge Main Document, the first label cell should have:

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PN

Subsequent label cells should have something like:

Next RecordUser: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PN

Changed it to this format where the Next Record is at beginning starting
with cell #2 onwards. Nothing has changed, though. The labels are still
coming out okay, same as before, and all in the right sequence, I'm just
getting in an extra table row at the bottom of each page of the merged doct.
(there are a total of 4 pages, so 3 of them are 4x21 while last page is only
partially filled as it doesn't fill up an entire page).

I'm stumped ... how 'bout you?

Cheers. D

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
Can you spell this out a bit? I read and re-read, but wasn't sure what
exactly you are seeing. Is the extra row at the very end of the output,
and what exactly does it contain (a duplicate of the last row of
labels?)

Yes, certainly. And thanks for the question; it helped to look at this
from a different angles to try to figure out what's wrong.

Admittedly, I've not done many mail merges in Word. All that I used to
do in my years as a word-processor when WP was the standard. I hadn't
actually looked at the data, so hadn't realized that I was just getting
one record repeated over and over g. My extensive WP experience helped
out and I remembered that there, too, we had to put and "End Record"
field in. Once I did that, this Word mail merge worked properly in that
way, too.

So here's the problem. 5167 has 4 columns of 20 rows (for a total of 80
labels). The original target label file has the standard 8x20. But the
merged docts all come out at 8x21! I don't know how to fix this.

I just thought of this, here's what in each cell in the original target
label file:

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PNNext Record

I bet you that this will make much clearer what I'm doing wrong. Each
and every cell has the above coding but I'm not sure if this is
completely right. Perhaps I'm missing something here, too, that is
generating labels with an incorrect # of rows.

In WP, I vaguely remember that the last field on the page needed an
extra code (next record, or end record, or somesuch). Is this the same
for Word?

In Word 2000, the main thing to get right is "no { NEXT } field in the
first label cell on the sheet, one { NEXT } field at the beginning of
each label cell after that", bearing in mind that some cells in some
layouts - such as 5167 - have "spacer" columns of cells that should not
have anything in them.

I might have misunderstood the above paragraph, but when I removed the
"Next Record" (doesn't show up as "{ NEXT }" for me. I'm using an
Excel file that I used to put in the fields, btw), in the first cell, the
first 2 cells in the merged label output were repeated. So that's not
what you're referring to, obviously g.

Re the spacer columns, yes. There is nothing in those columns at all and
they remain empty after the merge. So okay there.

Is it possible to tell what I'm doing wrong judging from the coding
above??

Thanks. D

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
Okay, however non-intuitive this solution would be, it is doing the
job, thank goodness. I'm still having one problem. I'm getting an
extra row at the bottom of the merged end document. The original
target document has the correct spacing at the bottom, but the merged
doct. puts in an extra row. In WP, I vaguely remember that the last
field on the page needed an extra code (next record, or end record, or
somesuch). Is this the same for Word? Pls advise. D

"Doug Robbins - Word MVP" wrote in message
...
Leave labels alone and achieve the space that you are after by
changing the formatting of paragraphs - Left and Right Indent, Space
Before and Space After.

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
I absolutely must have cell margins that are at about 0.05" around the
insides of Avery-sized labels #5167. Before changing the margins, the
pages of labels are aligned and positioned correctly. The instant I
change them to 0.05", the rows all become misaligned and a standard
sheet has a row pushed off to the next page. About halfway throught
the first page, the labels contents are printing half off the labels.

The text before and after the merge in no way is too much for each
cell and I made sure that the "automatically resize to fit contents"
option is not selected in the table options of the table properties
so I'm at a loss to figure out what is going on. The labels are not
always printing correctly from sheet to sheet as, I'm sure most with
experience have found, different batches of labels come out slight
differently placed. I've not done much mail merge or label work as
was the case back in my old word-processing days, but at the time I
had working templates with table margins that worked for any label
batches that came along. Through trial and error one eventually finds
the margins that work to the maximums of label production offset and
0.05" is about the minimum to accommodate these offsets. Certainly,
0.08" (tEventually a margin is found that accommodates all slight
variations between label stocks. But if I can't change the margins
and retain the integrity of labels, then I'm stuck. Does anyone know
what to do in this situation? I don't know what else to look at.
0.05" is not even my preference for label margins. In WP days, I'd
use the standard WP size of 0.05" and I used to use 5167 even back
then.

Stuck and hoping someone here knows a good solution to this. Thanks!
D

Has your Mail Merge Main Document definitely just got a 4x20 table?

If you look beyond page 1 of that document, are there definitely no
additional rows?

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
So here's the problem. 5167 has 4 columns of 20 rows (for a total of 80
labels). The original target label file has the standard 8x20. But the
merged docts all come out at 8x21! I don't know how to fix this.

The layout I get when I choose the 5167 option is 4x20. My best guess is
that at some point along the way, you may have selected a table row and
duplicated it by accident to make a 4x21 layout.

I start out with an 4x20 doct. as well. I put a typo there, btw, the end
result comes out 4x21, not 8x21! So my main word doct. (yes, or
"template", I never have kept the terms straight, Word or not), starts out
as 4x20 but the merged doct. comes out 4x21 each time. I've re-created
the template 3 times now and not once did I duplicate a table row, so
don't know why this additional row is sneaking in g.

To see what's happening, it may help to show the table gridlines - try
Table|Gridlines.

Always have the table gridlines showing, btw. Thanks.

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PNNext Record

Okay, Word is opposite in that way. The Next Record appears at the
top of the 2nd record onwards rather than at the end of the first record
onwards, except for the last record. Got it.

Some Word-oriented terminology:
a. Mail Merge Main Document: the layout (or "template", but that does not
necessarily mean a Word .dot template) - i.e. how you want your output to
look, and where to put each item of data
b. Mail Merge Data Source - the data you are going to merge into the Mail
Merge Main Document
c. Mail Merge Destination - could be a Destination Document or a
Destination Printer, etc.

Yeah-yeah lol. I've never kept the terms straight. I just know myself
what I'm working with even after all these years of doing other work
besides word-processing g. It's like riding a bike, though, it all
comes back to one even if the app is a different one.

In the Mail Merge Main Document, the first label cell should have:

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PN

Subsequent label cells should have something like:

Next RecordUser: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PN

Changed it to this format where the Next Record is at beginning
starting with cell #2 onwards. Nothing has changed, though. The labels
are still coming out okay, same as before, and all in the right sequence,
I'm just getting in an extra table row at the bottom of each page of the
merged doct. (there are a total of 4 pages, so 3 of them are 4x21 while
last page is only partially filled as it doesn't fill up an entire page).

I'm stumped ... how 'bout you?

Cheers. D

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
Can you spell this out a bit? I read and re-read, but wasn't sure what
exactly you are seeing. Is the extra row at the very end of the output,
and what exactly does it contain (a duplicate of the last row of
labels?)

Yes, certainly. And thanks for the question; it helped to look at this
from a different angles to try to figure out what's wrong.

Admittedly, I've not done many mail merges in Word. All that I used to
do in my years as a word-processor when WP was the standard. I hadn't
actually looked at the data, so hadn't realized that I was just getting
one record repeated over and over g. My extensive WP experience
helped out and I remembered that there, too, we had to put and "End
Record" field in. Once I did that, this Word mail merge worked properly
in that way, too.

So here's the problem. 5167 has 4 columns of 20 rows (for a total of 80
labels). The original target label file has the standard 8x20. But the
merged docts all come out at 8x21! I don't know how to fix this.

I just thought of this, here's what in each cell in the original target
label file:

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PNNext Record

I bet you that this will make much clearer what I'm doing wrong. Each
and every cell has the above coding but I'm not sure if this is
completely right. Perhaps I'm missing something here, too, that is
generating labels with an incorrect # of rows.

In WP, I vaguely remember that the last field on the page needed an
extra code (next record, or end record, or somesuch). Is this the
same for Word?

In Word 2000, the main thing to get right is "no { NEXT } field in the
first label cell on the sheet, one { NEXT } field at the beginning of
each label cell after that", bearing in mind that some cells in some
layouts - such as 5167 - have "spacer" columns of cells that should not
have anything in them.

I might have misunderstood the above paragraph, but when I removed the
"Next Record" (doesn't show up as "{ NEXT }" for me. I'm using an
Excel file that I used to put in the fields, btw), in the first cell,
the first 2 cells in the merged label output were repeated. So that's
not what you're referring to, obviously g.

Re the spacer columns, yes. There is nothing in those columns at all
and they remain empty after the merge. So okay there.

Is it possible to tell what I'm doing wrong judging from the coding
above??

Thanks. D

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
Okay, however non-intuitive this solution would be, it is doing the
job, thank goodness. I'm still having one problem. I'm getting an
extra row at the bottom of the merged end document. The original
target document has the correct spacing at the bottom, but the merged
doct. puts in an extra row. In WP, I vaguely remember that the last
field on the page needed an extra code (next record, or end record, or
somesuch). Is this the same for Word? Pls advise. D

"Doug Robbins - Word MVP" wrote in message
...
Leave labels alone and achieve the space that you are after by
changing the formatting of paragraphs - Left and Right Indent, Space
Before and Space After.

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
I absolutely must have cell margins that are at about 0.05" around
the insides of Avery-sized labels #5167. Before changing the
margins, the pages of labels are aligned and positioned correctly.
The instant I change them to 0.05", the rows all become misaligned
and a standard sheet has a row pushed off to the next page. About
halfway throught the first page, the labels contents are printing
half off the labels.

The text before and after the merge in no way is too much for each
cell and I made sure that the "automatically resize to fit contents"
option is not selected in the table options of the table properties
so I'm at a loss to figure out what is going on. The labels are not
always printing correctly from sheet to sheet as, I'm sure most with
experience have found, different batches of labels come out slight
differently placed. I've not done much mail merge or label work as
was the case back in my old word-processing days, but at the time I
had working templates with table margins that worked for any label
batches that came along. Through trial and error one eventually
finds the margins that work to the maximums of label production
offset and 0.05" is about the minimum to accommodate these offsets.
Certainly, 0.08" (tEventually a margin is found that accommodates
all slight variations between label stocks. But if I can't change
the margins and retain the integrity of labels, then I'm stuck. Does
anyone know what to do in this situation? I don't know what else to
look at. 0.05" is not even my preference for label margins. In WP
days, I'd use the standard WP size of 0.05" and I used to use 5167
even back then.

Stuck and hoping someone here knows a good solution to this.
Thanks! D

"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
Has your Mail Merge Main Document definitely just got a 4x20 table?

Yes.

If you look beyond page 1 of that document, are there definitely no
additional rows?

Yes. Just the one page. I always view in print layout mode so easy to see
when there's more than one page. And it's only been one page since the
beginning. Weird.

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
So here's the problem. 5167 has 4 columns of 20 rows (for a total of
80 labels). The original target label file has the standard 8x20. But
the merged docts all come out at 8x21! I don't know how to fix this.

The layout I get when I choose the 5167 option is 4x20. My best guess is
that at some point along the way, you may have selected a table row and
duplicated it by accident to make a 4x21 layout.

I start out with an 4x20 doct. as well. I put a typo there, btw, the end
result comes out 4x21, not 8x21! So my main word doct. (yes, or
"template", I never have kept the terms straight, Word or not), starts
out as 4x20 but the merged doct. comes out 4x21 each time. I've
re-created the template 3 times now and not once did I duplicate a table
row, so don't know why this additional row is sneaking in g.

To see what's happening, it may help to show the table gridlines - try
Table|Gridlines.

Always have the table gridlines showing, btw. Thanks.

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PNNext Record

Okay, Word is opposite in that way. The Next Record appears at the
top of the 2nd record onwards rather than at the end of the first record
onwards, except for the last record. Got it.

Some Word-oriented terminology:
a. Mail Merge Main Document: the layout (or "template", but that does
not necessarily mean a Word .dot template) - i.e. how you want your
output to look, and where to put each item of data
b. Mail Merge Data Source - the data you are going to merge into the
Mail Merge Main Document
c. Mail Merge Destination - could be a Destination Document or a
Destination Printer, etc.

Yeah-yeah lol. I've never kept the terms straight. I just know myself
what I'm working with even after all these years of doing other work
besides word-processing g. It's like riding a bike, though, it all
comes back to one even if the app is a different one.

In the Mail Merge Main Document, the first label cell should have:

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PN

Subsequent label cells should have something like:

Next RecordUser: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PN

Changed it to this format where the Next Record is at beginning
starting with cell #2 onwards. Nothing has changed, though. The labels
are still coming out okay, same as before, and all in the right sequence,
I'm just getting in an extra table row at the bottom of each page of the
merged doct. (there are a total of 4 pages, so 3 of them are 4x21 while
last page is only partially filled as it doesn't fill up an entire page).

I'm stumped ... how 'bout you?

Cheers. D

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
Can you spell this out a bit? I read and re-read, but wasn't sure what
exactly you are seeing. Is the extra row at the very end of the
output, and what exactly does it contain (a duplicate of the last row
of labels?)

Yes, certainly. And thanks for the question; it helped to look at this
from a different angles to try to figure out what's wrong.

Admittedly, I've not done many mail merges in Word. All that I used to
do in my years as a word-processor when WP was the standard. I hadn't
actually looked at the data, so hadn't realized that I was just getting
one record repeated over and over g. My extensive WP experience
helped out and I remembered that there, too, we had to put and "End
Record" field in. Once I did that, this Word mail merge worked
properly in that way, too.

So here's the problem. 5167 has 4 columns of 20 rows (for a total of
80 labels). The original target label file has the standard 8x20. But
the merged docts all come out at 8x21! I don't know how to fix this.

I just thought of this, here's what in each cell in the original target
label file:

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PNNext Record

I bet you that this will make much clearer what I'm doing wrong. Each
and every cell has the above coding but I'm not sure if this is
completely right. Perhaps I'm missing something here, too, that is
generating labels with an incorrect # of rows.

In WP, I vaguely remember that the last field on the page needed an
extra code (next record, or end record, or somesuch). Is this the
same for Word?

In Word 2000, the main thing to get right is "no { NEXT } field in the
first label cell on the sheet, one { NEXT } field at the beginning of
each label cell after that", bearing in mind that some cells in some
layouts - such as 5167 - have "spacer" columns of cells that should
not have anything in them.

I might have misunderstood the above paragraph, but when I removed the
"Next Record" (doesn't show up as "{ NEXT }" for me. I'm using an
Excel file that I used to put in the fields, btw), in the first cell,
the first 2 cells in the merged label output were repeated. So that's
not what you're referring to, obviously g.

Re the spacer columns, yes. There is nothing in those columns at all
and they remain empty after the merge. So okay there.

Is it possible to tell what I'm doing wrong judging from the coding
above??

Thanks. D

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
Okay, however non-intuitive this solution would be, it is doing the
job, thank goodness. I'm still having one problem. I'm getting an
extra row at the bottom of the merged end document. The original
target document has the correct spacing at the bottom, but the merged
doct. puts in an extra row. In WP, I vaguely remember that the last
field on the page needed an extra code (next record, or end record,
or somesuch). Is this the same for Word? Pls advise. D

"Doug Robbins - Word MVP" wrote in message
...
Leave labels alone and achieve the space that you are after by
changing the formatting of paragraphs - Left and Right Indent, Space
Before and Space After.

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of
my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
I absolutely must have cell margins that are at about 0.05" around
the insides of Avery-sized labels #5167. Before changing the
margins, the pages of labels are aligned and positioned correctly.
The instant I change them to 0.05", the rows all become misaligned
and a standard sheet has a row pushed off to the next page. About
halfway throught the first page, the labels contents are printing
half off the labels.

The text before and after the merge in no way is too much for each
cell and I made sure that the "automatically resize to fit
contents" option is not selected in the table options of the table
properties so I'm at a loss to figure out what is going on. The
labels are not always printing correctly from sheet to sheet as,
I'm sure most with experience have found, different batches of
labels come out slight differently placed. I've not done much mail
merge or label work as was the case back in my old word-processing
days, but at the time I had working templates with table margins
that worked for any label batches that came along. Through trial
and error one eventually finds the margins that work to the
maximums of label production offset and 0.05" is about the minimum
to accommodate these offsets. Certainly, 0.08" (tEventually a
margin is found that accommodates all slight variations between
label stocks. But if I can't change the margins and retain the
integrity of labels, then I'm stuck. Does anyone know what to do in
this situation? I don't know what else to look at. 0.05" is not
even my preference for label margins. In WP days, I'd use the
standard WP size of 0.05" and I used to use 5167 even back then.

Stuck and hoping someone here knows a good solution to this.
Thanks! D

Weird indeed.

So if for example your data source has 84 records and you output to a new
document, what do you see?

Does unchecking Tools|Options|Print|"Allow A4/Letter paper resizing" make
any difference?

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
Has your Mail Merge Main Document definitely just got a 4x20 table?

Yes.

If you look beyond page 1 of that document, are there definitely no
additional rows?

Yes. Just the one page. I always view in print layout mode so easy to
see when there's more than one page. And it's only been one page since
the beginning. Weird.

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
So here's the problem. 5167 has 4 columns of 20 rows (for a total of
80 labels). The original target label file has the standard 8x20.
But the merged docts all come out at 8x21! I don't know how to fix
this.

The layout I get when I choose the 5167 option is 4x20. My best guess
is that at some point along the way, you may have selected a table row
and duplicated it by accident to make a 4x21 layout.

I start out with an 4x20 doct. as well. I put a typo there, btw, the
end result comes out 4x21, not 8x21! So my main word doct. (yes, or
"template", I never have kept the terms straight, Word or not), starts
out as 4x20 but the merged doct. comes out 4x21 each time. I've
re-created the template 3 times now and not once did I duplicate a table
row, so don't know why this additional row is sneaking in g.

To see what's happening, it may help to show the table gridlines - try
Table|Gridlines.

Always have the table gridlines showing, btw. Thanks.

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PNNext Record

Okay, Word is opposite in that way. The Next Record appears at the
top of the 2nd record onwards rather than at the end of the first record
onwards, except for the last record. Got it.

Some Word-oriented terminology:
a. Mail Merge Main Document: the layout (or "template", but that does
not necessarily mean a Word .dot template) - i.e. how you want your
output to look, and where to put each item of data
b. Mail Merge Data Source - the data you are going to merge into the
Mail Merge Main Document
c. Mail Merge Destination - could be a Destination Document or a
Destination Printer, etc.

Yeah-yeah lol. I've never kept the terms straight. I just know
myself what I'm working with even after all these years of doing other
work besides word-processing g. It's like riding a bike, though, it
all comes back to one even if the app is a different one.

In the Mail Merge Main Document, the first label cell should have:

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PN

Subsequent label cells should have something like:

Next RecordUser: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PN

Changed it to this format where the Next Record is at beginning
starting with cell #2 onwards. Nothing has changed, though. The labels
are still coming out okay, same as before, and all in the right
sequence, I'm just getting in an extra table row at the bottom of each
page of the merged doct. (there are a total of 4 pages, so 3 of them are
4x21 while last page is only partially filled as it doesn't fill up an
entire page).

I'm stumped ... how 'bout you?

Cheers. D

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
Can you spell this out a bit? I read and re-read, but wasn't sure
what exactly you are seeing. Is the extra row at the very end of the
output, and what exactly does it contain (a duplicate of the last row
of labels?)

Yes, certainly. And thanks for the question; it helped to look at
this from a different angles to try to figure out what's wrong.

Admittedly, I've not done many mail merges in Word. All that I used
to do in my years as a word-processor when WP was the standard. I
hadn't actually looked at the data, so hadn't realized that I was just
getting one record repeated over and over g. My extensive WP
experience helped out and I remembered that there, too, we had to put
and "End Record" field in. Once I did that, this Word mail merge
worked properly in that way, too.

So here's the problem. 5167 has 4 columns of 20 rows (for a total of
80 labels). The original target label file has the standard 8x20.
But the merged docts all come out at 8x21! I don't know how to fix
this.

I just thought of this, here's what in each cell in the original
target label file:

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PNNext Record

I bet you that this will make much clearer what I'm doing wrong. Each
and every cell has the above coding but I'm not sure if this is
completely right. Perhaps I'm missing something here, too, that is
generating labels with an incorrect # of rows.

In WP, I vaguely remember that the last field on the page needed an
extra code (next record, or end record, or somesuch). Is this the
same for Word?

In Word 2000, the main thing to get right is "no { NEXT } field in
the first label cell on the sheet, one { NEXT } field at the
beginning of each label cell after that", bearing in mind that some
cells in some layouts - such as 5167 - have "spacer" columns of cells
that should not have anything in them.

I might have misunderstood the above paragraph, but when I removed the
"Next Record" (doesn't show up as "{ NEXT }" for me. I'm using an
Excel file that I used to put in the fields, btw), in the first cell,
the first 2 cells in the merged label output were repeated. So that's
not what you're referring to, obviously g.

Re the spacer columns, yes. There is nothing in those columns at all
and they remain empty after the merge. So okay there.

Is it possible to tell what I'm doing wrong judging from the coding
above??

Thanks. D

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
Okay, however non-intuitive this solution would be, it is doing the
job, thank goodness. I'm still having one problem. I'm getting an
extra row at the bottom of the merged end document. The original
target document has the correct spacing at the bottom, but the
merged doct. puts in an extra row. In WP, I vaguely remember that
the last field on the page needed an extra code (next record, or end
record, or somesuch). Is this the same for Word? Pls advise. D

"Doug Robbins - Word MVP" wrote in message
...
Leave labels alone and achieve the space that you are after by
changing the formatting of paragraphs - Left and Right Indent,
Space Before and Space After.

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of
my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
I absolutely must have cell margins that are at about 0.05" around
the insides of Avery-sized labels #5167. Before changing the
margins, the pages of labels are aligned and positioned correctly.
The instant I change them to 0.05", the rows all become misaligned
and a standard sheet has a row pushed off to the next page. About
halfway throught the first page, the labels contents are printing
half off the labels.

The text before and after the merge in no way is too much for each
cell and I made sure that the "automatically resize to fit
contents" option is not selected in the table options of the table
properties so I'm at a loss to figure out what is going on. The
labels are not always printing correctly from sheet to sheet as,
I'm sure most with experience have found, different batches of
labels come out slight differently placed. I've not done much mail
merge or label work as was the case back in my old word-processing
days, but at the time I had working templates with table margins
that worked for any label batches that came along. Through trial
and error one eventually finds the margins that work to the
maximums of label production offset and 0.05" is about the minimum
to accommodate these offsets. Certainly, 0.08" (tEventually a
margin is found that accommodates all slight variations between
label stocks. But if I can't change the margins and retain the
integrity of labels, then I'm stuck. Does anyone know what to do
in this situation? I don't know what else to look at. 0.05" is
not even my preference for label margins. In WP days, I'd use the
standard WP size of 0.05" and I used to use 5167 even back then.

Stuck and hoping someone here knows a good solution to this.
Thanks! D

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...

[snip]

Changed it to this format where the Next Record is at beginning
starting with cell #2 onwards. Nothing has changed, though. The labels
are still coming out okay, same as before, and all in the right sequence,
I'm just getting in an extra table row at the bottom of each page of the
merged doct. (there are a total of 4 pages, so 3 of them are 4x21 while
last page is only partially filled as it doesn't fill up an entire page).

[snip]

One clue. Something else weird is happening. In latest test, I tried both
options where we can choose _not_ to print blank lines or not but no matter
which option I choose, I get the same results: about 40 extra filled-in
cells in the last half of the 4th page where just the field "titles" show
up. In other words, the merge is creating a few "blank" cells in the final
merge document. I went back to the Excel data source file and though I knew
I'd defined the print area correctly this morning, went back and set the
print area again. There are absolutely no rows in the data source file that
are completely blank. Yes, there are a couple of blanks in the rows but
nothing to account for 40 empty records showing only titles. Yes, there are
also 2 entire blank columns in the Excel file, but these correspond to
fields that weren't defined in the Word template.

Also, besides having these empty cells, this last page has 4x19 labels
showing vs. the 4x20. Not sure if any of this is significant, but don't
recall seeing either of these 2 things happen before in other merges I've
done. Again, it's been so long I could be wrong, but thought I'd point
these 2 things out.

Cheers and have a good evening. Finishing my day and off to do some grocery
shopping g. D

"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
Weird indeed.

So if for example your data source has 84 records and you output to a new
document, what do you see?

pulling hair out I should have printed the sheets out before typing the #
of sheets I actually had. Despite this other goof-up, the rest of the
problem is as described.

Okay, with an actual printout in hand, I'm getting only 2 sheets of paper,
not 4 (thank goodness). I actually have 123 rows in the Excel doct. so less
the header row, the 123 rows means that there should be 122 labels filled
out in the final merge doct. I'm getting only 120. The label info is
almost identical from cell to cell, only the serial number changes. But
they're not completely sequential so I'll have to print out the Excel doct.
tomorrow and verify where the missing 2 pieces of information are located
(how much do you want to bet that one s/b at the end of page 1 and the other
at the beginning of pg. 2, or something like it???!!).

The first sheet has 4x21 labels showing up on it, the 2 has 4x9 filled in
plus 2 extra cells, while another 38 cells just contain the "titles" of the
fields and are, therefore, "blank" cells.

...........

wait a minute ... just noticed something ... I'll be danged. The last table
row at the bottom of the first page is actually the first table row of a
second table that should actually start on page 2. I had not seen the
square with the NSEW points before signalling the start of a table because
the mouse pointer must be in a certain spot over a table, as we all know,
and I hadn't mouse over any area in the table that would show this before
until now. I just inserted a page break between the two "tables" and
everything was fine.

So, what does this mean? Am I missing a break of some sort at the bottom of
my original Word template? Could it be something as simple as that??

Cheers. D

Does unchecking Tools|Options|Print|"Allow A4/Letter paper resizing" make
any difference?

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
Has your Mail Merge Main Document definitely just got a 4x20 table?

Yes.

If you look beyond page 1 of that document, are there definitely no
additional rows?

Yes. Just the one page. I always view in print layout mode so easy to
see when there's more than one page. And it's only been one page since
the beginning. Weird.

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
So here's the problem. 5167 has 4 columns of 20 rows (for a total of
80 labels). The original target label file has the standard 8x20.
But the merged docts all come out at 8x21! I don't know how to fix
this.

The layout I get when I choose the 5167 option is 4x20. My best guess
is that at some point along the way, you may have selected a table row
and duplicated it by accident to make a 4x21 layout.

I start out with an 4x20 doct. as well. I put a typo there, btw, the
end result comes out 4x21, not 8x21! So my main word doct. (yes, or
"template", I never have kept the terms straight, Word or not), starts
out as 4x20 but the merged doct. comes out 4x21 each time. I've
re-created the template 3 times now and not once did I duplicate a
table row, so don't know why this additional row is sneaking in g.

To see what's happening, it may help to show the table gridlines - try
Table|Gridlines.

Always have the table gridlines showing, btw. Thanks.

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PNNext Record

Okay, Word is opposite in that way. The Next Record appears at the
top of the 2nd record onwards rather than at the end of the first
record onwards, except for the last record. Got it.

Some Word-oriented terminology:
a. Mail Merge Main Document: the layout (or "template", but that does
not necessarily mean a Word .dot template) - i.e. how you want your
output to look, and where to put each item of data
b. Mail Merge Data Source - the data you are going to merge into the
Mail Merge Main Document
c. Mail Merge Destination - could be a Destination Document or a
Destination Printer, etc.

Yeah-yeah lol. I've never kept the terms straight. I just know
myself what I'm working with even after all these years of doing other
work besides word-processing g. It's like riding a bike, though, it
all comes back to one even if the app is a different one.

In the Mail Merge Main Document, the first label cell should have:

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PN

Subsequent label cells should have something like:

Next RecordUser: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PN

Changed it to this format where the Next Record is at beginning
starting with cell #2 onwards. Nothing has changed, though. The
labels are still coming out okay, same as before, and all in the right
sequence, I'm just getting in an extra table row at the bottom of each
page of the merged doct. (there are a total of 4 pages, so 3 of them
are 4x21 while last page is only partially filled as it doesn't fill up
an entire page).

I'm stumped ... how 'bout you?

Cheers. D

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
Can you spell this out a bit? I read and re-read, but wasn't sure
what exactly you are seeing. Is the extra row at the very end of the
output, and what exactly does it contain (a duplicate of the last
row of labels?)

Yes, certainly. And thanks for the question; it helped to look at
this from a different angles to try to figure out what's wrong.

Admittedly, I've not done many mail merges in Word. All that I used
to do in my years as a word-processor when WP was the standard. I
hadn't actually looked at the data, so hadn't realized that I was
just getting one record repeated over and over g. My extensive WP
experience helped out and I remembered that there, too, we had to put
and "End Record" field in. Once I did that, this Word mail merge
worked properly in that way, too.

So here's the problem. 5167 has 4 columns of 20 rows (for a total of
80 labels). The original target label file has the standard 8x20.
But the merged docts all come out at 8x21! I don't know how to fix
this.

I just thought of this, here's what in each cell in the original
target label file:

User: USER
UIN: UIN
Country: COUNTRY S/N: SN
Model: Model P/N: PNNext Record

I bet you that this will make much clearer what I'm doing wrong.
Each and every cell has the above coding but I'm not sure if this is
completely right. Perhaps I'm missing something here, too, that is
generating labels with an incorrect # of rows.

In WP, I vaguely remember that the last field on the page needed an
extra code (next record, or end record, or somesuch). Is this the
same for Word?

In Word 2000, the main thing to get right is "no { NEXT } field in
the first label cell on the sheet, one { NEXT } field at the
beginning of each label cell after that", bearing in mind that some
cells in some layouts - such as 5167 - have "spacer" columns of
cells that should not have anything in them.

I might have misunderstood the above paragraph, but when I removed
the "Next Record" (doesn't show up as "{ NEXT }" for me. I'm
using an Excel file that I used to put in the fields, btw), in the
first cell, the first 2 cells in the merged label output were
repeated. So that's not what you're referring to, obviously g.

Re the spacer columns, yes. There is nothing in those columns at all
and they remain empty after the merge. So okay there.

Is it possible to tell what I'm doing wrong judging from the coding
above??

Thanks. D

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
Okay, however non-intuitive this solution would be, it is doing the
job, thank goodness. I'm still having one problem. I'm getting an
extra row at the bottom of the merged end document. The original
target document has the correct spacing at the bottom, but the
merged doct. puts in an extra row. In WP, I vaguely remember that
the last field on the page needed an extra code (next record, or
end record, or somesuch). Is this the same for Word? Pls advise.
D

"Doug Robbins - Word MVP" wrote in message
...
Leave labels alone and achieve the space that you are after by
changing the formatting of paragraphs - Left and Right Indent,
Space Before and Space After.

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of
my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
I absolutely must have cell margins that are at about 0.05" around
the insides of Avery-sized labels #5167. Before changing the
margins, the pages of labels are aligned and positioned correctly.
The instant I change them to 0.05", the rows all become misaligned
and a standard sheet has a row pushed off to the next page. About
halfway throught the first page, the labels contents are printing
half off the labels.

The text before and after the merge in no way is too much for
each cell and I made sure that the "automatically resize to fit
contents" option is not selected in the table options of the
table properties so I'm at a loss to figure out what is going on.
The labels are not always printing correctly from sheet to sheet
as, I'm sure most with experience have found, different batches
of labels come out slight differently placed. I've not done much
mail merge or label work as was the case back in my old
word-processing days, but at the time I had working templates
with table margins that worked for any label batches that came
along. Through trial and error one eventually finds the margins
that work to the maximums of label production offset and 0.05" is
about the minimum to accommodate these offsets. Certainly, 0.08"
(tEventually a margin is found that accommodates all slight
variations between label stocks. But if I can't change the
margins and retain the integrity of labels, then I'm stuck. Does
anyone know what to do in this situation? I don't know what else
to look at. 0.05" is not even my preference for label margins. In
WP days, I'd use the standard WP size of 0.05" and I used to use
5167 even back then.

Stuck and hoping someone here knows a good solution to this.
Thanks! D

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
.. .
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...

[snip]

wait a minute ... just noticed something ... I'll be danged. The last
table row at the bottom of the first page is actually the first table row
of a second table that should actually start on page 2. I had not seen
the square with the NSEW points before signalling the start of a table
because the mouse pointer must be in a certain spot over a table, as we
all know, and I hadn't mouse over any area in the table that would show
this before until now. I just inserted a page break between the two
"tables" and everything was fine.

So, what does this mean? Am I missing a break of some sort at the bottom
of my original Word template? Could it be something as simple as that??

[snip]

I played around with this and ended up inserting a section break right
underneath the end of the table on the page of my original Word template.
That seemed to do the trick. Is this acceptable Word usage for this type of
thing? I'm asking because sometimes what we stumble upon doing is the best
way to do something and it might cause problems down the road in other
situations. Again, this seemed to do the trick. I'll test tomorrow by
adding pages of dummy info to the Excel file to get several sheets in the
merge and I'll see what happens then.

Thanks. D

Another thing to check - if you bring up the Mail Merge Helper, does it
still say you are doing a label merge? If it had somehow changed to being a
Catalog merge, then it probably wouldn't do a page break after it had merged
each page. If there was space for a complete table row at the bottom of the
page, it would probably be added to the existing table. Adding a section
break might change that behaviour. However, that's a bit far-fetched.

In any case, I don't really see how MailMerge can be cramming 21 rows onto
one page if they are the correct height to match your label stationery,
which suggests that there's still something wrong in the layout department.

Peter Jamieson

"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
...
"StargateFanFromWork" wrote in message
. ..
"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...

[snip]

wait a minute ... just noticed something ... I'll be danged. The last
table row at the bottom of the first page is actually the first table row
of a second table that should actually start on page 2. I had not seen
the square with the NSEW points before signalling the start of a table
because the mouse pointer must be in a certain spot over a table, as we
all know, and I hadn't mouse over any area in the table that would show
this before until now. I just inserted a page break between the two
"tables" and everything was fine.

So, what does this mean? Am I missing a break of some sort at the bottom
of my original Word template? Could it be something as simple as that??

[snip]

I played around with this and ended up inserting a section break right
underneath the end of the table on the page of my original Word template.
That seemed to do the trick. Is this acceptable Word usage for this type
of thing? I'm asking because sometimes what we stumble upon doing is the
best way to do something and it might cause problems down the road in
other situations. Again, this seemed to do the trick. I'll test tomorrow
by adding pages of dummy info to the Excel file to get several sheets in
the merge and I'll see what happens then.

Thanks. D