The Wysard needs help...! Bogus error message.

I've got a client site where we're having a totally baffling problem.
On one form, we frequently get a message

The Microsoft Jet engine stopped the process because both you and
another user are attempting to change the same data at the same time.

We've gotten the message *occasionally* on another major form, but in
that case it might indeed be two people hitting the same record. It's
not in this case however! It is NOT an accurate message; while this
is a shared database, we can get the same message running when nobody
else is in the database, front or backend. Naturally my first thought
was that I had some code or another form with the record open; however
that is not the case. Setting Locks on the form (and its subforms) to
No Locks, or to Current Record, has no effect. The error is not
consistant; sometimes it lets us update the record, sometimes we get
the error. When I copy the databases from the client site to my PC I
do NOT get the error.

It's a complex form on a complex database, so it's quite possible I'm
missing something - but I need a fresh pair of eyes on the problem.

Access2003, in 2002/2003 format; split front/backend; JET 4.0 SP8;
Windows XP, SP1 on some machines SP2 on others (and there's no
correlation). My client and I will happily pay for any solution; I'm
sure that he would provide Citrix access to the client computer if
that's needed.

John W. Vinson[MVP]
Join the online Access Chats
Tuesday 11am EDT - Thursday 3:30pm EDT
http://community.compuserve.com/msdevapps

"John Vinson" wrote in message

I've got a client site where we're having a totally baffling problem.
On one form, we frequently get a message

The Microsoft Jet engine stopped the process because both you and
another user are attempting to change the same data at the same time.

We've gotten the message *occasionally* on another major form, but in
that case it might indeed be two people hitting the same record. It's
not in this case however! It is NOT an accurate message; while this
is a shared database, we can get the same message running when nobody
else is in the database, front or backend. Naturally my first thought
was that I had some code or another form with the record open; however
that is not the case. Setting Locks on the form (and its subforms) to
No Locks, or to Current Record, has no effect. The error is not
consistant; sometimes it lets us update the record, sometimes we get
the error. When I copy the databases from the client site to my PC I
do NOT get the error.

It's a complex form on a complex database, so it's quite possible I'm
missing something - but I need a fresh pair of eyes on the problem.

Access2003, in 2002/2003 format; split front/backend; JET 4.0 SP8;
Windows XP, SP1 on some machines SP2 on others (and there's no
correlation). My client and I will happily pay for any solution; I'm
sure that he would provide Citrix access to the client computer if
that's needed.

John -

I was thinking about corruption, but since it doesn't happen when copied
to your computer, that seems unlikely. I have only vague wonderings to
offer:

Could there be some task running on the network that does periodic
backups, and locks the file temporarily while it does so?

You mentioned Citrix. Is this happening only when the database is
accessed over a Citrix connection?

You say it happens mostly on this one form, and maybe occasionally on
another. Do the forms have anything in common? Is this form more
heavily used than other forms (so that the problem appears to be linked
to the form, but is really just happening periodically)?

Are there other forms bound to the same table as this form? Can you
verify that they don't show the problem? In other words, can we link
the problem to a particular table?

Are there any operations occurring in Timer events?

--
Dirk Goldgar, MS Access MVP
www.datagnostics.com

(please reply to the newsgroup)

Hi John

This can be hard to trace. Hopefully you'll get multiple responses, as I
believe there are multiple possible causes.

1. The most obvious one is a corruption. You've probably tried a decompile
already? A rebuild (import into a fresh database) is probably worth a shot,
except this particular form (and its subforms?) should probably be done via
SaveAsText/LoadFromText.

The others are the usual suspects:

2. Explicit saves. Set Me.Dirty = False before any operation that requires
the form to move record, such as Requery, Filter, OrderBy, change
RecordSource, set Bookmark, Move..., Close, ...

3. Make sure the record is saved before opening another form or report that
reads the same data. This is particularly crucial if there are any Memo,
Hyperlink, or OLE Objects (i.e. BLOBs that use a pointer).

4. Avoid dirtying the record unnecessarily. It's surprising how often people
change a bound control to the same value, or even dirty the record in
Form_Current.

5. Make sure that Name AutoCorrect is off.

6. Explicitly close all recordsets you open.

7. Leave record locking on optimistic ("no locks"), and try without Record
Level Locking.

8. Old JET 4 version (but you say that's covered).

HTH

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia.
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"John Vinson" wrote in message
...
I've got a client site where we're having a totally baffling problem.
On one form, we frequently get a message

The Microsoft Jet engine stopped the process because both you and
another user are attempting to change the same data at the same time.

We've gotten the message *occasionally* on another major form, but in
that case it might indeed be two people hitting the same record. It's
not in this case however! It is NOT an accurate message; while this
is a shared database, we can get the same message running when nobody
else is in the database, front or backend. Naturally my first thought
was that I had some code or another form with the record open; however
that is not the case. Setting Locks on the form (and its subforms) to
No Locks, or to Current Record, has no effect. The error is not
consistant; sometimes it lets us update the record, sometimes we get
the error. When I copy the databases from the client site to my PC I
do NOT get the error.

It's a complex form on a complex database, so it's quite possible I'm
missing something - but I need a fresh pair of eyes on the problem.

Access2003, in 2002/2003 format; split front/backend; JET 4.0 SP8;
Windows XP, SP1 on some machines SP2 on others (and there's no
correlation). My client and I will happily pay for any solution; I'm
sure that he would provide Citrix access to the client computer if
that's needed.

John W. Vinson[MVP]
Join the online Access Chats
Tuesday 11am EDT - Thursday 3:30pm EDT
http://community.compuserve.com/msdevapps

Hi John,

In addition to the things Yoda mentioned here are a couple more things to check:

Are all the computers on Service Pack 1 for Access 2003? Some, but not all?

I doubt this would be the case, but it way be worth checking to see *exactly*
what version of Jet everyone is using.

Jet 4.0 SP8 will have a version number of 4.0.8015.0

However, a Windows security update (can't remember which one) updated
Jet past that number. If everyone has installed Service pack 8 AND all the
Windows Updates the Jet version should be 4.0.8618.0.
Might be worth checking.

Is the problem occurring on every computer for your client or just one (or several)?

--
Jeff Conrad
Access Junkie
Bend, Oregon

"John Vinson" wrote in message
...
I've got a client site where we're having a totally baffling problem.
On one form, we frequently get a message

The Microsoft Jet engine stopped the process because both you and
another user are attempting to change the same data at the same time.

We've gotten the message *occasionally* on another major form, but in
that case it might indeed be two people hitting the same record. It's
not in this case however! It is NOT an accurate message; while this
is a shared database, we can get the same message running when nobody
else is in the database, front or backend. Naturally my first thought
was that I had some code or another form with the record open; however
that is not the case. Setting Locks on the form (and its subforms) to
No Locks, or to Current Record, has no effect. The error is not
consistant; sometimes it lets us update the record, sometimes we get
the error. When I copy the databases from the client site to my PC I
do NOT get the error.

It's a complex form on a complex database, so it's quite possible I'm
missing something - but I need a fresh pair of eyes on the problem.

Access2003, in 2002/2003 format; split front/backend; JET 4.0 SP8;
Windows XP, SP1 on some machines SP2 on others (and there's no
correlation). My client and I will happily pay for any solution; I'm
sure that he would provide Citrix access to the client computer if
that's needed.

John W. Vinson[MVP]
Join the online Access Chats
Tuesday 11am EDT - Thursday 3:30pm EDT
http://community.compuserve.com/msdevapps

The places I would look for is there any update code that runs and modifies
some data?

Any focus changes from sub-form to main form when this error occurs? (and
that code uses a sub-form recordset clone?).

Often, for some code that updates any data that *might* be in the form..then
I do a me.refresh

(or, better yet..the

if me.Dirty = true then
me.Dirty = false
endif

Given you first rate experience with this product, then no doubt this call
for help is not going to be a easy one!...

--
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada

http://www.attcanada.net/~kallal.msn

Lo John,

Interesting. BE on a server?

I'd have a look at what's actually happening to the BE mdb
and ldb files on an OK machine and a problem one with
FileMon.
http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/source/filemon.shtml

Be useful to eliminate any persistant file locks or renegade
handles. Probably worth watching the FE too.

Is indexing set on the problem machines?

Clutching at straws now..... :-)

--
Nick Coe (UK)
AccHelp v1.01 Application Help File Builder
http://www.alphacos.co.uk/
Download Free Demo Copy
----
"John Vinson" wrote in
message ...
I've got a client site where we're having a totally
baffling problem.
On one form, we frequently get a message

The Microsoft Jet engine stopped the process because both
you and
another user are attempting to change the same data at the
same time.

We've gotten the message *occasionally* on another major
form, but in
that case it might indeed be two people hitting the same
record. It's
not in this case however! It is NOT an accurate message;
while this
is a shared database, we can get the same message running
when nobody
else is in the database, front or backend. Naturally my
first thought
was that I had some code or another form with the record
open; however
that is not the case. Setting Locks on the form (and its
subforms) to
No Locks, or to Current Record, has no effect. The error
is not
consistant; sometimes it lets us update the record,
sometimes we get
the error. When I copy the databases from the client site
to my PC I
do NOT get the error.

It's a complex form on a complex database, so it's quite
possible I'm
missing something - but I need a fresh pair of eyes on the
problem.

Access2003, in 2002/2003 format; split front/backend; JET
4.0 SP8;
Windows XP, SP1 on some machines SP2 on others (and
there's no
correlation). My client and I will happily pay for any
solution; I'm
sure that he would provide Citrix access to the client
computer if
that's needed.

John W. Vinson[MVP]
Join the online Access Chats
Tuesday 11am EDT - Thursday 3:30pm EDT
http://community.compuserve.com/msdevapps

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:27:11 -0500, "Dirk Goldgar"
wrote:

Could there be some task running on the network that does periodic
backups, and locks the file temporarily while it does so?

You mentioned Citrix. Is this happening only when the database is
accessed over a Citrix connection?

You say it happens mostly on this one form, and maybe occasionally on
another. Do the forms have anything in common? Is this form more
heavily used than other forms (so that the problem appears to be linked
to the form, but is really just happening periodically)?

Are there other forms bound to the same table as this form? Can you
verify that they don't show the problem? In other words, can we link
the problem to a particular table?

Are there any operations occurring in Timer events?

Very good suggestions all but... none resolve the issue. I'd already
ruled out some (most of the victims are NOT on Citrix, but I get the
problem over Citrix); no tasks that would do this.

The Form that does it consistantly is the LEAST used of the major
forms. There are three applications. It's an animal shelter database;
there are Calls (injured animals, dangerous animals, strays, etc);
Impounds (animals picked up to be sheltered); and Licensing. It's the
Licensing that's causing the problem. It now happens on EVERY attempt
to create a new record - and each time I enter data on a subform, I
get *six* of the error message popups. If I then leave the computer
alone, I get a new message every few seconds - scores of them if I go
off for a while.

See answers elsethread... and thanks.

John W. Vinson[MVP]
Join the online Access Chats
Tuesday 11am EDT - Thursday 3:30pm EDT
http://community.compuserve.com/msdevapps

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:42:50 +0800, "Allen Browne"
wrote:

Hi John

This can be hard to trace. Hopefully you'll get multiple responses, as I
believe there are multiple possible causes.

1. The most obvious one is a corruption. You've probably tried a decompile
already? A rebuild (import into a fresh database) is probably worth a shot,
except this particular form (and its subforms?) should probably be done via
SaveAsText/LoadFromText.

I hadn't done so but it didn't help when I did. I was able to
SaveToText but got an error on LoadFromText ("unable to generate
output file") so I just imported the form and its subforms.

The others are the usual suspects:

2. Explicit saves. Set Me.Dirty = False before any operation that requires
the form to move record, such as Requery, Filter, OrderBy, change
RecordSource, set Bookmark, Move..., Close, ...

I do that a LOT.

3. Make sure the record is saved before opening another form or report that
reads the same data. This is particularly crucial if there are any Memo,
Hyperlink, or OLE Objects (i.e. BLOBs that use a pointer).

There's a subform on the form viewing the same data, *read only* - but
removing this subform has no effect.

4. Avoid dirtying the record unnecessarily. It's surprising how often people
change a bound control to the same value, or even dirty the record in
Form_Current.

That I do need to check.

5. Make sure that Name AutoCorrect is off.

of COURSE!! g

6. Explicitly close all recordsets you open.

I'll doublecheck - I habitually do so but some of this code has been
around a long while!

7. Leave record locking on optimistic ("no locks"), and try without Record
Level Locking.

Tried No Locks and Current Record Lock, haven't tried changing Record
Level Locking yet.

8. Old JET 4 version (but you say that's covered).

Well, it's running on a number of machines to which I do not have
access (I'm in Idaho, they're in Los Angeles).

Very good suggestions, and I'll be following them up... thank you!

John W. Vinson[MVP]
Join the online Access Chats
Tuesday 11am EDT - Thursday 3:30pm EDT
http://community.compuserve.com/msdevapps

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:46:14 -0800, "Jeff Conrad"
wrote:

Hi John,

In addition to the things Yoda mentioned here are a couple more things to check:

Are all the computers on Service Pack 1 for Access 2003? Some, but not all?

I doubt this would be the case, but it way be worth checking to see *exactly*
what version of Jet everyone is using.

Jet 4.0 SP8 will have a version number of 4.0.8015.0

I'll ask my client to doublecheck.

However, a Windows security update (can't remember which one) updated
Jet past that number. If everyone has installed Service pack 8 AND all the
Windows Updates the Jet version should be 4.0.8618.0.
Might be worth checking.

Is the problem occurring on every computer for your client or just one (or several)?

Several.

Thanks!

John W. Vinson[MVP]
Join the online Access Chats
Tuesday 11am EDT - Thursday 3:30pm EDT
http://community.compuserve.com/msdevapps

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:32:24 -0700, "Albert D. Kallal"
wrote:

The places I would look for is there any update code that runs and modifies
some data?

There is - but not in this particular part of the program, and I've
determined that it's not running.

Any focus changes from sub-form to main form when this error occurs? (and
that code uses a sub-form recordset clone?).

Yes... there is. In one case I have a "people" form with an "address"
subform; the clients sometimes know an address but not a name, and
want to just type the address. I set the parent form's LastName to
"Unknown" and pick up the PersonID. This is working OK - it's when I
enter the name *first* (and the code doesn't execute) that I'm having
the error!

Often, for some code that updates any data that *might* be in the form..then
I do a me.refresh

(or, better yet..the

if me.Dirty = true then
me.Dirty = false
endif

Yep... very familiar.

Given you first rate experience with this product, then no doubt this call
for help is not going to be a easy one!...

That's why I'm calling in reinforcements!

Thanks Albert. Some good ideas to investigate.

John W. Vinson[MVP]
Join the online Access Chats
Tuesday 11am EDT - Thursday 3:30pm EDT
http://community.compuserve.com/msdevapps