Visio 2003 Pro, can't seem to open files above ± 400KB

Previously using Visio 2000 Pro, w/some, but not all patches. Program would
fail when attempting to cut fairly complex building diagrams out of one
drawing in prep for pasting into another open or un-open diagram. The problem
seemed to be related to file size & complexity of the initial drawing.

I am running WinXP Pro, 2GB memory, 128GB free disk space, 3.2 GHz PC, with
all OS & MS application patches installed.

“Upgraded� to Visio 2003 Pro and applied all patches hoping to solve this
problem. Now I can’t even open files above ± 400KB. Program fails to load
file & sends an error report to MS. Example, program will load a file of
383KB, but croaks on the next largest file at 485KB. I have two larger files
at 779KB and 806KB of the campus and surrounding land to work on as well.

Will re-install old version just so I can save the various buildings in our
school campus to separate files, & then hopefully cut/paste these pieces back
into an overall diagram.

Any ideas on why the new version fails to work?

I have not heard of any problems related to file size. That may just be a
coincidence. Can you describe what drawing types are involved?

You might try going to Tools Options Security and unchecking "Enable
automation events". Then see if you can open the files successfully. If
so, one of Visio's add-ons may be having trouble with the file. Make sure
to recheck the box after trying this, or you'll find many features in Visio
may not work properly.

--
Mark Nelson
Office Graphics - Visio
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"tnuckels" wrote in message
news
Previously using Visio 2000 Pro, w/some, but not all patches. Program
would
fail when attempting to cut fairly complex building diagrams out of one
drawing in prep for pasting into another open or un-open diagram. The
problem
seemed to be related to file size & complexity of the initial drawing.

I am running WinXP Pro, 2GB memory, 128GB free disk space, 3.2 GHz PC,
with
all OS & MS application patches installed.

"Upgraded" to Visio 2003 Pro and applied all patches hoping to solve this
problem. Now I can't even open files above ± 400KB. Program fails to load
file & sends an error report to MS. Example, program will load a file of
383KB, but croaks on the next largest file at 485KB. I have two larger
files
at 779KB and 806KB of the campus and surrounding land to work on as well.

Will re-install old version just so I can save the various buildings in
our
school campus to separate files, & then hopefully cut/paste these pieces
back
into an overall diagram.

Any ideas on why the new version fails to work?

Hello Mark,

There are 18 files associated with the school building layout project that I
am working on. Simple, single layer/page drawings, though they contain a fair
level of detail, just usings objects from the Home Plan group of objects
(walls, doors, commodes, etc.). All the files over ± 400KB, or ½ of them,
fail to load and blow Visio 2003 Pro out of the water.

I did the Security, Uncheck “Automation Events�, but the files continue to
fail to load.

I did a search of my HD to see if I had any other “unrelated� Visio files
above 400KB and found a few (655KB & 734KB) that do load, so it would appear
that size alone is not the problem.

Were there any problems with the number of groupings in previous versions or
problems associated with cut/paste? I did a lot of groupings as I moved the
various sections of measured building spaces around to fit together with each
other.

File-wise, I have 3 groups of 6 files each. There are 3 smaller
sub-sections of the campus that are scaled the same, then I have one master
campus view, one master with roads, and one map/directions view. I am having
problems with the largest of the subsection files, as well as the two master
campus files.

My original problems began while working on the entire campus files. As new
building were added, I updated the smaller sub-section of the campus files,
then cut and pasted the new additions into the larger overall campus files.
One day the elements of a newly added building did not scale properly when
cut and pasted into the overall campus view. After fixing those un-scaled
elements, I found I was unable to cut and paste grouped buildings from this
master view into other master views, as the program would blow up.

Now, since I have updated to Visio 2003 Pro, I can no longer open these
larger master files, as well as the largest of the sub-section file that
contains the Admin building. I think I'm taking two steps back here, though
the new version Looks Great.

I could email you one of the problem files to see if it fails on your PC, if
that is a possibility.

Thank you for your time and assistance,

TNuckels

"Mark Nelson [MS]" wrote:

I have not heard of any problems related to file size. That may just be a
coincidence. Can you describe what drawing types are involved?

You might try going to Tools Options Security and unchecking "Enable
automation events". Then see if you can open the files successfully. If
so, one of Visio's add-ons may be having trouble with the file. Make sure
to recheck the box after trying this, or you'll find many features in Visio
may not work properly.

--
Mark Nelson
Office Graphics - Visio
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"tnuckels" wrote in message
news
Previously using Visio 2000 Pro, w/some, but not all patches. Program
would
fail when attempting to cut fairly complex building diagrams out of one
drawing in prep for pasting into another open or un-open diagram. The
problem
seemed to be related to file size & complexity of the initial drawing.

I am running WinXP Pro, 2GB memory, 128GB free disk space, 3.2 GHz PC,
with
all OS & MS application patches installed.

"Upgraded" to Visio 2003 Pro and applied all patches hoping to solve this
problem. Now I can't even open files above ± 400KB. Program fails to load
file & sends an error report to MS. Example, program will load a file of
383KB, but croaks on the next largest file at 485KB. I have two larger
files
at 779KB and 806KB of the campus and surrounding land to work on as well.

Will re-install old version just so I can save the various buildings in
our
school campus to separate files, & then hopefully cut/paste these pieces
back
into an overall diagram.

Any ideas on why the new version fails to work?

Hi again Mark,

Two observations:

I reloaded Visio 2000 Pro and it can open all the suspect files ... so I
guess I'll try and simplify (less groups, less detail, etc.) the biger files
and see of that helps.

I found versions of the big files from late in 2004, before the new
buildings were added and my troubles began. Visio 2003 Pro can't open these
files either.

Just thought I'd make you life more comlplicated.

TNuckels

"Mark Nelson [MS]" wrote:

I have not heard of any problems related to file size. That may just be a
coincidence. Can you describe what drawing types are involved?

You might try going to Tools Options Security and unchecking "Enable
automation events". Then see if you can open the files successfully. If
so, one of Visio's add-ons may be having trouble with the file. Make sure
to recheck the box after trying this, or you'll find many features in Visio
may not work properly.

--
Mark Nelson
Office Graphics - Visio
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"tnuckels" wrote in message
news
Previously using Visio 2000 Pro, w/some, but not all patches. Program
would
fail when attempting to cut fairly complex building diagrams out of one
drawing in prep for pasting into another open or un-open diagram. The
problem
seemed to be related to file size & complexity of the initial drawing.

I am running WinXP Pro, 2GB memory, 128GB free disk space, 3.2 GHz PC,
with
all OS & MS application patches installed.

"Upgraded" to Visio 2003 Pro and applied all patches hoping to solve this
problem. Now I can't even open files above ± 400KB. Program fails to load
file & sends an error report to MS. Example, program will load a file of
383KB, but croaks on the next largest file at 485KB. I have two larger
files
at 779KB and 806KB of the campus and surrounding land to work on as well.

Will re-install old version just so I can save the various buildings in
our
school campus to separate files, & then hopefully cut/paste these pieces
back
into an overall diagram.

Any ideas on why the new version fails to work?

I use both 200 and 2003 and regularly use files 1 to 2 MB in each and have no
problems regardless of file size. I'd guess its something else. Or try a test
with a problem file by deleting suspects one at a time until something shows
up. Also look for something way outside the normal paper size and delete it.

Doug

"tnuckels" wrote:

Hi again Mark,

Two observations:

I reloaded Visio 2000 Pro and it can open all the suspect files ... so I
guess I'll try and simplify (less groups, less detail, etc.) the biger files
and see of that helps.

I found versions of the big files from late in 2004, before the new
buildings were added and my troubles began. Visio 2003 Pro can't open these
files either.

Just thought I'd make you life more comlplicated.

TNuckels

Doug has the right approach (though painful).

My guess is that you are encountering a problem with a specific shape or set
of shapes that is preventing the whole document from opening. Of course you
have no idea which one. I have seen this type of problem with Visio 2003
and older files before.

If you send me your files (zipped please) I can try to help track down the
issue.

--
Mark Nelson
Office Graphics - Visio
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"Doug.S" wrote in message
...
I use both 200 and 2003 and regularly use files 1 to 2 MB in each and have
no
problems regardless of file size. I'd guess its something else. Or try a
test
with a problem file by deleting suspects one at a time until something
shows
up. Also look for something way outside the normal paper size and delete
it.

Doug

"tnuckels" wrote:

Hi again Mark,

Two observations:

I reloaded Visio 2000 Pro and it can open all the suspect files ... so I
guess I'll try and simplify (less groups, less detail, etc.) the biger
files
and see of that helps.

I found versions of the big files from late in 2004, before the new
buildings were added and my troubles began. Visio 2003 Pro can't open
these
files either.

Just thought I'd make you life more comlplicated.

TNuckels

Doug, thanks for the info and tips. I’ll give them a whirl.

In the meantime I will zip up the 3 files I am having problems with and send
them along to Mark to see if the problem persists at his location and if he
can shed some additional light on what might be causing it.

Mark, email w/attached TNuckels.zip will be coming your way shortly.


"Mark Nelson [MS]" wrote:

Doug has the right approach (though painful).

My guess is that you are encountering a problem with a specific shape or set
of shapes that is preventing the whole document from opening. Of course you
have no idea which one. I have seen this type of problem with Visio 2003
and older files before.

If you send me your files (zipped please) I can try to help track down the
issue.

--
Mark Nelson
Office Graphics - Visio
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"Doug.S" wrote in message
...
I use both 200 and 2003 and regularly use files 1 to 2 MB in each and have
no
problems regardless of file size. I'd guess its something else. Or try a
test
with a problem file by deleting suspects one at a time until something
shows
up. Also look for something way outside the normal paper size and delete
it.

Doug

"tnuckels" wrote:

Hi again Mark,

Two observations:

I reloaded Visio 2000 Pro and it can open all the suspect files ... so I
guess I'll try and simplify (less groups, less detail, etc.) the biger
files
and see of that helps.

I found versions of the big files from late in 2004, before the new
buildings were added and my troubles began. Visio 2003 Pro can't open
these
files either.

Just thought I'd make you life more comlplicated.

TNuckels

Attempted to send email w/zip attached but it bounced back w/following message:

..net 007: This e-mail message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

..net 013: The destination mail server was not found.

Note: This error message indicates there could be a problem in the
transmission path to the destination mail system.

Solution:
Check the e-mail address for correct spelling and resend.

Host online.microsoft.com not found.

The following recipients did not receive this message:




"Mark Nelson [MS]" wrote:

Doug has the right approach (though painful).

My guess is that you are encountering a problem with a specific shape or set
of shapes that is preventing the whole document from opening. Of course you
have no idea which one. I have seen this type of problem with Visio 2003
and older files before.

If you send me your files (zipped please) I can try to help track down the
issue.

--
Mark Nelson
Office Graphics - Visio
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"Doug.S" wrote in message
...
I use both 200 and 2003 and regularly use files 1 to 2 MB in each and have
no
problems regardless of file size. I'd guess its something else. Or try a
test
with a problem file by deleting suspects one at a time until something
shows
up. Also look for something way outside the normal paper size and delete
it.

Doug

"tnuckels" wrote:

Hi again Mark,

Two observations:

I reloaded Visio 2000 Pro and it can open all the suspect files ... so I
guess I'll try and simplify (less groups, less detail, etc.) the biger
files
and see of that helps.

I found versions of the big files from late in 2004, before the new
buildings were added and my troubles began. Visio 2003 Pro can't open
these
files either.

Just thought I'd make you life more comlplicated.

TNuckels

Sorry I forgot to post my standard instructions. Remove 'online' from the
address. That is simply for spam protection.

--
Mark Nelson
Office Graphics - Visio
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"TNuckels" wrote in message
...
Attempted to send email w/zip attached but it bounced back w/following
message:

.net 007: This e-mail message was undeliverable due to the following
reason:

.net 013: The destination mail server was not found.

Note: This error message indicates there could be a problem in the
transmission path to the destination mail system.

Solution:
Check the e-mail address for correct spelling and resend.

Host online.microsoft.com not found.

The following recipients did not receive this message:




"Mark Nelson [MS]" wrote:

Doug has the right approach (though painful).

My guess is that you are encountering a problem with a specific shape or
set
of shapes that is preventing the whole document from opening. Of course
you
have no idea which one. I have seen this type of problem with Visio 2003
and older files before.

If you send me your files (zipped please) I can try to help track down
the
issue.

--
Mark Nelson
Office Graphics - Visio
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

"Doug.S" wrote in message
...
I use both 200 and 2003 and regularly use files 1 to 2 MB in each and
have
no
problems regardless of file size. I'd guess its something else. Or try
a
test
with a problem file by deleting suspects one at a time until something
shows
up. Also look for something way outside the normal paper size and
delete
it.

Doug

"tnuckels" wrote:

Hi again Mark,

Two observations:

I reloaded Visio 2000 Pro and it can open all the suspect files ... so
I
guess I'll try and simplify (less groups, less detail, etc.) the biger
files
and see of that helps.

I found versions of the big files from late in 2004, before the new
buildings were added and my troubles began. Visio 2003 Pro can't open
these
files either.

Just thought I'd make you life more comlplicated.

TNuckels

Hi Todd,

That’s good news. You are correct about the Windows Install issue. When
multiple versions of Visio are run on the same computer, Visio must
re-configure itself as the primary version.

By all means, post your results and any other helpful information.

Mark
________________________________________
Hi Mark,

I just wanted to let you know that all of my errant files are now behaving
quite nicely, now that the corrupt stair master has been removed by doing a:
Window
Show Document Stencil
Highlight the stair master
Right-click
Select Delete
Then Save the document

Previously corrupt documents can then be opened successfully in Visio 2003
Pro.

Odd thing is, once its been Open(ed) With ~ Visio 2000 Pro, then saved, then
re-opened with Visio 2003 Pro, the PC goes through invoking Windows Install,
Gathering Information … routine, though it never go so far as to ask for a
disk. Subsequently opened files don’t cause this behavior. I guess its
re-establishing Visio 2003 Pro as the default Visio version on the PC.

Unless you have any objection I’ll post our private thread, MINUS email
addresses and any other private information, back to the discussion board.
Maybe someone else might find the process we went through useful.

Todd
________________________________________
That’s IT!

Multiple BUGS, Multiple VERSIONS, Multiple SERVICE PATCHES … so what’s to
remember?

Dude, take a vacation!

I’ll try and delete the master from the Window, Show Document Stencil … and
hopefully leave you alone.

Todd
________________________________________
Perhaps I’m not remembering correctly. The location of this menu item has
changed from version to version. Please also look under the Window menu.
________________________________________
Hi Mark,

Maybe I’m just missing it, but there is NO Show Document Stencil in Visio
2000 Pro. I even applied the SP2, just to make sure there nothing had been
added over the as sold version I’m running.

Please see the attached screen shot. Perhaps there is another avenue to
getting to the Document Stencil in V2KPro. I looked at the File, Properties,
but none of them seemed to be applicable to the problem, except Contents,
Masters, Stair Section, but this does not appear to be editable.

Todd
________________________________________
Hi Todd,

You need to make the change in the Document Stencil. This is the place
where the master shapes used in the drawing are kept. Go to File Stencil
Show Document Stencil in Visio 2000. Then right-click on the Stair section
master and delete it.

The steps you describe below remove the master shape from your stencils,
which would prevent someone from dragging the Stair section back into a
document and re-introducing the problem. That is probably a wise change to
make anyway.

Our development team has researched this issue now and determined that this
master shape is corrupted. It is corrupted even in Visio 2000, but that does
not cause adverse effects. Once you try to load it in Visio 2003, then the
shape causes problems.

There is another workaround beyond the steps you are taking to purge the
shape from your documents. If you can get hold of a copy of Visio 2002, you
can get Visio to fix the corruption. Visio 2002 is able to read Visio 2000
documents without error because the two versions share the same file format.
Visio 2002 is also able to save a document in XML format. If you save out as
XML and reopen the document, Visio cleans any errors out of the file. You
can then resave the document in binary format or leave it in XML. Visio 2003
can open documents in either form.

I’m not sure what solution works best for you. Those are the options I’m
aware of.

Thanks,
Mark Nelson
________________________________________
Hi Mark,

The files you sent me are working fine now, so I want to thank you very much.

I follow the discussion in your previous email. Unfortunately, when I
attempt to do this in Visio 2000 Pro the Show Document Stencil option is not
there.

I am attempting to fix some other files associated with this same project,
basically the same diagrams with a few changes for presentation to a
different audience, that were not in the batch I sent you.

Here are the steps I am taking. Please tell me where/if I’m going wrong:
1. I opened the files in Visio 200 Pro
2. Rt.-Click on the Home Diagram, Wall – Stencil header bar
3. select * Edit
4. Rt.-Click the master stair section
5. select Delete
6. save the stencil
7. close all open stencils
8. then save the diagram

Unfortunately, Visio 2003 Pro still craps out when trying to open the newly
saved diagram.

I can re-create the different versions of these files using the master
diagrams that I sent you and you cleaned up for me. However, I want to be
able to perform this procedure myself, clean the existing files, and stop
bothering you.

Thanks,

Todd Nuckels
________________________________________
Hi Todd,

I’m happy to explain in more detail. But first, understand that I have not
discovered why this shape is problematic. My experience with file open
problems is that there is often one entity blocking the whole process.
Therefore, the workaround is to eliminate entities from the drawing until
things work. Now that the shape has been isolated, I have logged a bug and
asked our development team to investigate the true problem.

Visio documents are basically composed of Masters, Pages and Shapes. A
Master shape is what you drag from a stencil (I believe you called it
template) onto a drawing Page. When you do this, Visio creates a Shape. The
shape is an instance of that master. The master defines all of the
properties and behaviors of the shape. This is done for efficiency so that
we don’t track redundant information in your drawing. The shape instance
has just the information that makes it unique, such as its coordinates on the
page and its text. The term ‘shape’ is often used to describe both Masters
and Shape instances, so this can get a little confusing.

You can see all the Masters used in your document by going to File Stencil
Show Document Stencil (or File Shapes Show Document Stencil in Visio
2003 terminology). Masters do not go away when you delete all the shape
instances on the page, so you may have some unused items here. If you select
an item and press Delete, Visio will delete the item if it has no instances
or give you a warning if it does. If you choose to delete a master with
instances, the shape instances get orphaned. This is what I did to remove
Stair section master. The result is a loss in efficiency because the shape
instances have to store all their properties in each copy, but there is no
change to visual fidelity. Yes, you are using the Stair section shapes in
your documents, but for some reason only the master is problematic. In the
fixed documents you now have a bunch of orphaned Stair section shape
instances.

Since we have not investigated the problem with the Stair section, I don’t
know whether the original shape is corrupt or whether Visio 2003 has a subtle
file conversion problem that happens to be triggered in this case. If you
can avoid using the shape, I would consider that. Other shapes related to
stairs do not seem to be affected – just the Stair section shape.

Mark
________________________________________
Hi Mark,

Thank you for your efforts at solving my problem.

There were several stair sections used throughout the drawings, including on
the drawings that are currently not giving me any problems. While I
appreciate that I may now simply be able to continue on with my project, I am
unsatisfied with just letting you fix my problems and have several questions:

1. Can you explain what a “master shape� is, and if there is a difference
between a master and a shape that was dragged from a template and dropped
onto a page for use?
2. How did you get to the stair master shape to get rid of it?
3. In saying that “this master causes many problems�, are you saying there
was an inherent flaw with this shape as delivered, and I should avoid its use
in the future, say by building my own stairs out of landings instead?
4. Speaking of landings, I use this shape a LOT, mostly as a solid
square/rectangular to cover up things. Is this “stair� component a problem,
or just the three step stair shape?
5. Finally, when you say the master shape was in the drawing, but not a
shape on the page, I’m not sure I follow this logic. If you are familiar
with Dbase/RBase compilers, perhaps what you are saying is equivalent to
common code functions being grabbed up at compile time and dumped into the
final *.EXE file, even if you did not explicitly use them in the code you
wrote, which often caused large files and unexpected problems?

Sorry for being such an unsophisticated Visio user. I know it can do a lot
more than make pretty drawings, but that’s all I’ve needed it for to this
point.

Todd
________________________________________
Hi Todd,

Thanks for the documents. When I try to open these files in Visio 2003 SP1
or Visio 2003 SP2, Visio crashes. When I try to open them in Visio 2007
Beta, I get an error message (1283) and cannot proceed. Something is
definitely wrong.

I have isolated the problem down to a specific master shape in these
documents – the Stair section. The presence of this master causes many
problems. Even though I can open the documents in Visio 2002, Visio crashes
when I try to edit this particular shape.

I’ve edited the files you sent in Visio 2002 to remove the offending master
shape. This does not affect the appearance of the drawings because this is a
master shape not a shape on the page. There are two caveats to note here.
First, while Visio 2000 and Visio 2002 share the same file format, the
Building Plan add-on that manages walls, doors and windows is not backward
compatible. That means you can open these files in Visio 2000 but special
wall behaviors may not function. I did this so that things work better if
you open the documents in Visio 2003. Second, I removed the document
thumbnails from the files. There is a problem in Visio 2002 where thumbnails
severely bloat documents. After opening in Visio 2003, you can turn
thumbnails back on using File Properties.

These files should now be usable in Visio 2003. Please try it and let me
know.

Thanks,
Mark Nelson
Visio
________________________________________
Mark,

See attached file TNuckels.zip.

Thanks,

Todd


"Mark Nelson [MS]" wrote:

Sorry I forgot to post my standard instructions. Remove 'online' from the
address. That is simply for spam protection.

--
Mark Nelson
Office Graphics - Visio
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"TNuckels" wrote in message
...
Attempted to send email w/zip attached but it bounced back w/following
message:

.net 007: This e-mail message was undeliverable due to the following
reason:

.net 013: The destination mail server was not found.

Note: This error message indicates there could be a problem in the
transmission path to the destination mail system.

Solution:
Check the e-mail address for correct spelling and resend.

Host online.microsoft.com not found.

The following recipients did not receive this message:




"Mark Nelson [MS]" wrote:

Doug has the right approach (though painful).

My guess is that you are encountering a problem with a specific shape or
set
of shapes that is preventing the whole document from opening. Of course
you
have no idea which one. I have seen this type of problem with Visio 2003
and older files before.

If you send me your files (zipped please) I can try to help track down
the
issue.

--
Mark Nelson
Office Graphics - Visio
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

"Doug.S" wrote in message
...
I use both 200 and 2003 and regularly use files 1 to 2 MB in each and
have
no
problems regardless of file size. I'd guess its something else. Or try
a
test
with a problem file by deleting suspects one at a time until something
shows
up. Also look for something way outside the normal paper size and
delete
it.

Doug

"tnuckels" wrote:

Hi again Mark,

Two observations:

I reloaded Visio 2000 Pro and it can open all the suspect files ... so
I
guess I'll try and simplify (less groups, less detail, etc.) the biger
files
and see of that helps.

I found versions of the big files from late in 2004, before the new
buildings were added and my troubles began. Visio 2003 Pro can't open
these
files either.

Just thought I'd make you life more comlplicated.

TNuckels