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#31
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DITCH THE RIBBON!
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since November, the more experienced users are the ones who have the most trouble with the new UI. Beginner and a lot of average users can figure out fairly quickly where all the things they normally use are in the ribbon. In addition, they benefit from the much better discoverability of features that the ribbon offers. However, the users who know a program in and out, use keyboard shortcuts, floating toolbars, etc are the ones who have the highest learning curve. It's really the power users that get into trouble with the new UI. ... Debatable. People who are used to using the keyboard and seldom if ever the mouse shouldn't have trouble with Excel 2007 since it seems to have a compatibility mode for key sequences beginning with [Alt]+letter as opposed to [Alt] alone. Gotta wonder how long that'll last. At least for 2007. They might change this of course in Office 14 (#13 is being skipped). I was thinking more about the intermediate users, those with a few years of experience with Office but not decades of experience using spreadsheets and word processors. The sort of people who wouldn't have learned to use keyboards back in the dark ages when mice were rare if ever to be seen at all, and who know where things are in the current menu but will have to hunt for things in the ribbon menu. For them it'll be a trade-off between finding new (to them) commands more easily but a struggle to find some commands they already know. Valid point. Excel: Lots of people are unhappy with the ribbon in Excel. It doesn't seem to be so much the ribbon itself, but rather the limit to one toolbar, no floating toolbars, no easy ribbon customization, etc. I know that you are an Excel power user, so I am not surprised at all that you are in the unhappy camp. ... In a nutshell, the ribbon breaks MANY existing Excel models/applications with no simple fixes. FWLIW, the ribbon allows more than one custom toolbar, but all custom toolbars appear in the Add-Ins tab. Not really toolbars for me then. Also, you can't create any new toolbars without VBA in 2007 (as the UI for the toolbars is no longer there). According to Microsoft's statistical data though, 98% of all users use the default 2003 UI. The data is of course skewed in favor of this argument, because the people who are most likely to change their UI are also the ones most likely to switch off the tool that reports the data to MS (or have it switched off on a corporate level). . . . ... Unsubstantiated 'statistics' are the cream of USENET! Any urls for these statistics? I figured you had already seen the statistic, as you complained about Jensen's article http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archiv...17/577485.aspx He cites that fewer than 2% customize the UI. However, there are a few Excel applications that also get rid of the 2003 & prior menu bar in favor of a few command buttons in worksheets. That sort of Excel application will become impossible in Excel 2007 unless there's some hush-hush property to hide the new UI entirely. Actually such a property has existed since Beta 1. It's startFromScratch=true in RibbonX. See the blog on my website for information on RibbonX and ribbon customization in general. OK, but I had meant an Excel object model property that could have been set/modified by VBA. I realize Microsoft would dearly love to wean Office developers from VBA so that they could sell more VSTO units, but the claimed reason of security and maintainability rings hollow. The single best thing MSFT could do for Office users would be to separate VBA statements and Excel OM methods/properties into security categories like safe (e.g., OM's Cells.Count property), dangerous (e.g., VBA's Shell and Declare statements and OM's Application.ExecuteXL4Macro method), and suspect (example: VBA's ChDir and OM's Application.EnableEvents property), then have highly protected means of restricting Office macro execution to only safe code, only safe and suspect code or any code, and make it impossible for this setting to be changed while ANY Office application were running. It'd be nice to be able to include udfs using only safe properties and VBA code without having the macro security dialog appearing for medium macro security or dealing with certification. The problem is that to alter the 2007 UI, you can't use VBA at all. You need to use XML (RibbonX) that is embedded in the xlsx file. So you can change the UI without VSTO, but you can't do it straight from VBA. I've got a post on my blog that details how to do this with Word, which is the exact same method one has to use for Excel. BTW, the macro security handling has been altered in Excel 2007 as well. Look up the Excel 12 blog for details. So does your approach completely eliminate the ribbon as in, e.g., a maximized Excel worksheet's top row appears immediately below the application window's title bar when row/column headers are disabled? Not exactly. You get the title bar plus an empty bar below it. It takes up as much space as when you minimize the ribbon. The problem seems to be that the Office button spans two rows and hence the second row that normally contains the ribbon tabs needs to stay visible. Patrick Schmid -------------- http://pschmid.net |
#32
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DITCH THE RIBBON!
I've always disagreed with Microsoft's "statistics" on UI
customization. I suspect they didn't take into account templates or add-ins (I'm not referring to third-party add-ins) that customize the UI or when one uses VBA to customize the UI. I believe the statistic are based on the use of the Customize dialog box. And I know it's been stated, those that are savvy enough to customize the UI are also savvy enough to not opt into CEIP. I know I didn't even when I fully understood it. (Well...apparently I didn't fully understand since I didn't realize it would end up resulting in the lack of customization. g) I've asked numerous times if they could provide the percentage of registered Office users compared to the users who opted into CEIP. The inability to easily customize the ribbon (and the QAT doesn't cut it) and the lack of floating toolbars is my one complaint for Office 2007 and why can't say I love the new UI. I've accepted it - but I still can't say I love it. While I appreciate all of your hard work, Patrick, in building the add-in to customize the ribbon, IMHO that's something that we should have never needed to begin with - ease in customization should be a standard function. ~Beth Melton "Patrick Schmid" wrote in message ... I figured you had already seen the statistic, as you complained about Jensen's article http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archiv...17/577485.aspx He cites that fewer than 2% customize the UI. |
#33
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DITCH THE RIBBON!
still can't say I love it. While I appreciate all of your hard work,
Patrick, in building the add-in to customize the ribbon, IMHO that's something that we should have never needed to begin with - ease in customization should be a standard function. I wished I didn't have to write such an add-in. I too would expect user customization to be a built-in feature. Patrick Schmid -------------- http://pschmid.net "Patrick Schmid" wrote in message ... I figured you had already seen the statistic, as you complained about Jensen's article http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archiv...17/577485.aspx He cites that fewer than 2% customize the UI. |
#34
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DITCH THE RIBBON!
Patrick Schmid wrote...
.... I wished I didn't have to write such an add-in. I too would expect user customization to be a built-in feature. Not cynical enough. I believe I read at some point in the Excel blog that one of the selling points for Office 2007, at least to large corporations, would be reduced support costs from having to assist users who customized too much. However, Microsoft approached this in typical Microsoft fashion. Did they provide a group policy setting that would prevent UI customization while providing UI customization tools for individual Office buyers or the lucky few in large corporations allowed the priviledge of customizing their UI? Of course not. No group policy setting to make this secure. Instead, we'll get many people trying (and many likely failing) to use your add-in. Fewer people may try to customize their UI, but many of those who do will screw things up much worse than they ever did with Tools Customize. Apparently Microsoft doesn't try to learn lessons from Linux developers. The Gnome 2.0 interface introduced a menu based on an XML scheme, but the Gnome Project failed to include a menu editor. Users were left to edit the XML. Much fun, failure and flames ensued. This bit of history is set to repeat when Office 2007 goes on sale. |
#35
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DITCH THE RIBBON!
...
I wished I didn't have to write such an add-in. I too would expect user customization to be a built-in feature. Not cynical enough. I believe I read at some point in the Excel blog that one of the selling points for Office 2007, at least to large corporations, would be reduced support costs from having to assist users who customized too much. The UI blog touted this as advantage as well. However, Microsoft approached this in typical Microsoft fashion. Did they provide a group policy setting that would prevent UI customization while providing UI customization tools for individual Office buyers or the lucky few in large corporations allowed the priviledge of customizing their UI? Of course not. No group policy setting to make this secure. Instead, we'll get many people trying (and many likely That solution would have been desirable. They could have prevented many accidental customizations by making customization a feature in Options, so that users had to go there and do it explicitly. failing) to use your add-in. Fewer people may try to customize their UI, but many of those who do will screw things up much worse than they ever did with Tools Customize. I hope I'll be able to prevent that. Customization can be switched off with one mouse click in the UI of my add-in. In addition, I'll look into providing a GPO to disable the add-in automatically. Apparently Microsoft doesn't try to learn lessons from Linux developers. The Gnome 2.0 interface introduced a menu based on an XML scheme, but the Gnome Project failed to include a menu editor. Users were left to edit the XML. Much fun, failure and flames ensued. This bit of history is set to repeat when Office 2007 goes on sale. Interesting. I didn't know about that one. Patrick Schmid -------------- http://pschmid.net |
#36
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DITCH THE RIBBON!
no one has addressed the stupid Perl
noone has addressed how computer syppor people are going to give instructions via telephone with this stupid 2007 interface... let me give you an example of what i mean: winXP = go to start then all programs bla bla.. on vista : -Go to start. - I see no start anywhere... - Oh you are using Vista? -Yeah...Im new to computers.... -Ok great...see the perl? -what perl? -that round thing with a flag in it... -Where? I dont see no flag... -In the lower left corner of your screen. That rectangular thing that has 4 colors inside.. -Thats a flag? I dont think its a flag.. And you call this the Perl? It doesnt look like a perl.... -Well JUST PRESS that DAMN THINGY!!! Not take this and apply it to the perl in office and the horrible ribbon..... its gonna be a circus!!!! "Patrick Schmid" wrote in message ... ... I wished I didn't have to write such an add-in. I too would expect user customization to be a built-in feature. Not cynical enough. I believe I read at some point in the Excel blog that one of the selling points for Office 2007, at least to large corporations, would be reduced support costs from having to assist users who customized too much. The UI blog touted this as advantage as well. However, Microsoft approached this in typical Microsoft fashion. Did they provide a group policy setting that would prevent UI customization while providing UI customization tools for individual Office buyers or the lucky few in large corporations allowed the priviledge of customizing their UI? Of course not. No group policy setting to make this secure. Instead, we'll get many people trying (and many likely That solution would have been desirable. They could have prevented many accidental customizations by making customization a feature in Options, so that users had to go there and do it explicitly. failing) to use your add-in. Fewer people may try to customize their UI, but many of those who do will screw things up much worse than they ever did with Tools Customize. I hope I'll be able to prevent that. Customization can be switched off with one mouse click in the UI of my add-in. In addition, I'll look into providing a GPO to disable the add-in automatically. Apparently Microsoft doesn't try to learn lessons from Linux developers. The Gnome 2.0 interface introduced a menu based on an XML scheme, but the Gnome Project failed to include a menu editor. Users were left to edit the XML. Much fun, failure and flames ensued. This bit of history is set to repeat when Office 2007 goes on sale. Interesting. I didn't know about that one. Patrick Schmid -------------- http://pschmid.net |
#37
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DITCH THE RIBBON!
John Jay Smith
If you provide feedback in a positive way then you can get people to listen. The only thing your doing is complaining and most people aren't going to listen to someone complain and those who do usually do so only to prove the complainers points wrong some of the time....In the future make your feedback in a positive way and I'm sure you can get lot more people to listen and may even make some positive things happen -- Paul Ballou MVP Office http://office.microsoft.com/home http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/ http://www.ballousgiftshop.com Life would be easier if we could view the source code "John Jay Smith" - wrote in message ... no one has addressed the stupid Perl noone has addressed how computer syppor people are going to give instructions via telephone with this stupid 2007 interface... let me give you an example of what i mean: winXP = go to start then all programs bla bla.. on vista : -Go to start. - I see no start anywhere... - Oh you are using Vista? -Yeah...Im new to computers.... -Ok great...see the perl? -what perl? -that round thing with a flag in it... -Where? I dont see no flag... -In the lower left corner of your screen. That rectangular thing that has 4 colors inside.. -Thats a flag? I dont think its a flag.. And you call this the Perl? It doesnt look like a perl.... -Well JUST PRESS that DAMN THINGY!!! Not take this and apply it to the perl in office and the horrible ribbon..... its gonna be a circus!!!! "Patrick Schmid" wrote in message ... ... I wished I didn't have to write such an add-in. I too would expect user customization to be a built-in feature. Not cynical enough. I believe I read at some point in the Excel blog that one of the selling points for Office 2007, at least to large corporations, would be reduced support costs from having to assist users who customized too much. The UI blog touted this as advantage as well. However, Microsoft approached this in typical Microsoft fashion. Did they provide a group policy setting that would prevent UI customization while providing UI customization tools for individual Office buyers or the lucky few in large corporations allowed the priviledge of customizing their UI? Of course not. No group policy setting to make this secure. Instead, we'll get many people trying (and many likely That solution would have been desirable. They could have prevented many accidental customizations by making customization a feature in Options, so that users had to go there and do it explicitly. failing) to use your add-in. Fewer people may try to customize their UI, but many of those who do will screw things up much worse than they ever did with Tools Customize. I hope I'll be able to prevent that. Customization can be switched off with one mouse click in the UI of my add-in. In addition, I'll look into providing a GPO to disable the add-in automatically. Apparently Microsoft doesn't try to learn lessons from Linux developers. The Gnome 2.0 interface introduced a menu based on an XML scheme, but the Gnome Project failed to include a menu editor. Users were left to edit the XML. Much fun, failure and flames ensued. This bit of history is set to repeat when Office 2007 goes on sale. Interesting. I didn't know about that one. Patrick Schmid -------------- http://pschmid.net |
#38
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DITCH THE RIBBON!
Well who says I am not using BOTH stategies?
:-) You do things your way.. and Ill do things my way.... ok? "Paul Ballou" wrote in message ... John Jay Smith If you provide feedback in a positive way then you can get people to listen. The only thing your doing is complaining and most people aren't going to listen to someone complain and those who do usually do so only to prove the complainers points wrong some of the time....In the future make your feedback in a positive way and I'm sure you can get lot more people to listen and may even make some positive things happen -- Paul Ballou MVP Office http://office.microsoft.com/home http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/ http://www.ballousgiftshop.com Life would be easier if we could view the source code "John Jay Smith" - wrote in message ... no one has addressed the stupid Perl noone has addressed how computer syppor people are going to give instructions via telephone with this stupid 2007 interface... let me give you an example of what i mean: winXP = go to start then all programs bla bla.. on vista : -Go to start. - I see no start anywhere... - Oh you are using Vista? -Yeah...Im new to computers.... -Ok great...see the perl? -what perl? -that round thing with a flag in it... -Where? I dont see no flag... -In the lower left corner of your screen. That rectangular thing that has 4 colors inside.. -Thats a flag? I dont think its a flag.. And you call this the Perl? It doesnt look like a perl.... -Well JUST PRESS that DAMN THINGY!!! Not take this and apply it to the perl in office and the horrible ribbon..... its gonna be a circus!!!! "Patrick Schmid" wrote in message ... ... I wished I didn't have to write such an add-in. I too would expect user customization to be a built-in feature. Not cynical enough. I believe I read at some point in the Excel blog that one of the selling points for Office 2007, at least to large corporations, would be reduced support costs from having to assist users who customized too much. The UI blog touted this as advantage as well. However, Microsoft approached this in typical Microsoft fashion. Did they provide a group policy setting that would prevent UI customization while providing UI customization tools for individual Office buyers or the lucky few in large corporations allowed the priviledge of customizing their UI? Of course not. No group policy setting to make this secure. Instead, we'll get many people trying (and many likely That solution would have been desirable. They could have prevented many accidental customizations by making customization a feature in Options, so that users had to go there and do it explicitly. failing) to use your add-in. Fewer people may try to customize their UI, but many of those who do will screw things up much worse than they ever did with Tools Customize. I hope I'll be able to prevent that. Customization can be switched off with one mouse click in the UI of my add-in. In addition, I'll look into providing a GPO to disable the add-in automatically. Apparently Microsoft doesn't try to learn lessons from Linux developers. The Gnome 2.0 interface introduced a menu based on an XML scheme, but the Gnome Project failed to include a menu editor. Users were left to edit the XML. Much fun, failure and flames ensued. This bit of history is set to repeat when Office 2007 goes on sale. Interesting. I didn't know about that one. Patrick Schmid -------------- http://pschmid.net |
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