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OE Is Deleting My NG Headers



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 30th, 2009, 04:33 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
PA Bear [MS MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,690
Default OE Is Deleting My NG Headers

Devil's Advocate: If posts were not removed from OE (in its current design
state) when they were removed from the server and a heavy newsgroup user
never deleted any posts manually, consider how bloated and ripe for
corruption the message store would become over time!
--
~PAÞ

Steve Cochran wrote:
It never made sense and its been a problem since OE4. It won't be fixed,
so
if you wish to keep NG messages, you have to copy them to local folders.
That is the only way. People complained about this for many years and MS
just ignored them.

steve

"Neil" wrote in message
...

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...
Bruce Hagen wrote:

News servers only keep posts for a period of time. Each server is
different.
MSNews keeps them for 90 days. Some servers keep them longer, some only
for
a few days.

If you want to keep posts indefinitely, copy them to an OE local
folder.

Also, make sure that in View | Current View, you have Show All Messages
and
Group messages By Conversation checked and nothing else.

The reason regarding Bruce's reply is that OE remains in sync with the
NNTP server. If the NNTP server expires and drops a post then so, too,
will OE. You need to move items out of the newsgroups folder in OE if
you don't want them to get synchronized (i.e., deleted in OE after the
NNTP server deleted them).


Again, I have my synchronization settings set to "No synchronization."
And
I remember my headers used to stay indefinitely. Once a header was
downloaded, it would just stay in the folder. If I hadn't gotten the body
of a message, and it scrolled off the server, then, yeah, it was too late
(and when I tried to get that expired text, OE would show the header in
strikethrough text; but the header would still be there).

So what's the point of having a synchronization setting of "no
synchronization" if OE is going to synchronize anyway? Doesn't make
sense.
And, like I said, didn't used to be that way. I remember a point where OE
would keep downloaded headers indefinitely.

Also, what's the point of having a "Delete news messages X days after
being downloaded" if OE is just going to delete them anyway, regardless
of
the setting. Again, doesn't make sense.


  #12  
Old January 30th, 2009, 04:53 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
D. Spencer Hines[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 271
Default OE Is Deleting My NG Headers

Actually...

I think Microsoft was right on this one.

Put the newsgroup messages you want to save in a/several folder/s you have
designed for that purpose.

Keep Outlook Express...

Lean & Mean.

DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor

"Neil" wrote in message
...

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...


Actually...

I think Microsoft was right on this one.

Newsgroup messages SHOULD be moved to a user-designed folder if he wants
them to be saved.


baldersnip


  #13  
Old January 30th, 2009, 04:59 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
D. Spencer Hines[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 271
Default OE Is Deleting My NG Headers

Of course...

These resistant pogues couldn't get their noodles around that one

Keep OE = Outlook EXPRESS.

Don't Bloat It.

D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote in message
...

Devil's Advocate: If posts were not removed from OE (in its current design
state) when they were removed from the server and a heavy newsgroup user
never deleted any posts manually, consider how bloated and ripe for
corruption the message store would become over time!
--
~PAÞ



  #14  
Old January 30th, 2009, 06:04 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
NormanM[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default OE Is Deleting My NG Headers

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:09:56 -0600, Neil wrote:

"Steve Cochran" wrote in message
...


It never made sense and its been a problem since OE4. It won't be fixed,
so if you wish to keep NG messages, you have to copy them to local
folders. That is the only way. People complained about this for many
years and MS just ignored them.


And MS wonders why they're sinking faster than the titanic while Google
acquires their empire (apologies for the mixed metaphor; but maybe in this
case a mixed metaphor is fitting, given the absolutely absurd state of the
software).


Very mixed up. Google does not publish software. Microsoft is only losing on
the web search front.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
  #15  
Old January 30th, 2009, 06:05 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
Ron Sommer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,059
Default OE Is Deleting My NG Headers



"Neil" wrote in message
...

"Ron Sommer" wrote in message
...


"Neil" wrote in message
...

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...
Bruce Hagen wrote:

News servers only keep posts for a period of time. Each server is
different.
MSNews keeps them for 90 days. Some servers keep them longer, some
only for
a few days.

If you want to keep posts indefinitely, copy them to an OE local
folder.

Also, make sure that in View | Current View, you have Show All
Messages and
Group messages By Conversation checked and nothing else.

The reason regarding Bruce's reply is that OE remains in sync with the
NNTP server. If the NNTP server expires and drops a post then so, too,
will OE. You need to move items out of the newsgroups folder in OE if
you don't want them to get synchronized (i.e., deleted in OE after the
NNTP server deleted them).

Again, I have my synchronization settings set to "No synchronization."
And I remember my headers used to stay indefinitely. Once a header was
downloaded, it would just stay in the folder. If I hadn't gotten the
body of a message, and it scrolled off the server, then, yeah, it was
too late (and when I tried to get that expired text, OE would show the
header in strikethrough text; but the header would still be there).

So what's the point of having a synchronization setting of "no
synchronization" if OE is going to synchronize anyway? Doesn't make
sense. And, like I said, didn't used to be that way. I remember a point
where OE would keep downloaded headers indefinitely.

Also, what's the point of having a "Delete news messages X days after
being downloaded" if OE is just going to delete them anyway, regardless
of the setting. Again, doesn't make sense.


A newsgroup is synchronized when you view the newsgroup if you are
online.
Old messages will be removed when they expire from the server.
The synchronization settings apply to downloading of messages, not to the
removal of old messages.
If you do not want messages from a particular folder or newsgroup to be
downloaded, click Don't Synchronize.


So what you're saying is that if I click "Don't Synchronize," then
messages from that particular newsgroup will not be downloaded. Is that
what you're saying? Because that appears to be what you're saying. Yet I
have "Don't Synchronize" set for ALL my newsgroups. Yet I don't seem to
have any problem downloading messages.

So, what am I not seeing here?



The only way to keep old messages is to move them to a user created
folder.




"If you do not want messages from a particular folder or newsgroup to be
downloaded, click Don't Synchronize." comes from OE help.
Tools, Accounts, newsgroup server settings has Include this account when
sending and receiving.
All newsgroups under that server will be affected by that setting.
Each newsgroup has synchronization settings. Those settings apply when OE
sends and receives.
When you view a newsgroup and you are online, that newsgroup will be
synchronized and headers, new messages only, or all messages will be
downloaded.
By being online and entering the newsgroup, you are telling OE to
synchronize.
You can't get new messages or headers without synchronizing.
--
Ronald Sommer


  #16  
Old January 30th, 2009, 06:05 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
NormanM[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default OE Is Deleting My NG Headers

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:53:22 -0000, D. Spencer Hines wrote:

Keep Outlook Express...

Lean & Mean.


Extremely delicate. Subject to corruption if not handled carefully.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
  #17  
Old January 30th, 2009, 06:53 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,113
Default OE Is Deleting My NG Headers

Neil wrote:

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...
Bruce Hagen wrote:

News servers only keep posts for a period of time. Each server is
different.
MSNews keeps them for 90 days. Some servers keep them longer, some only
for
a few days.

If you want to keep posts indefinitely, copy them to an OE local folder.

Also, make sure that in View | Current View, you have Show All Messages
and
Group messages By Conversation checked and nothing else.


The reason regarding Bruce's reply is that OE remains in sync with the
NNTP server. If the NNTP server expires and drops a post then so, too,
will OE. You need to move items out of the newsgroups folder in OE if
you don't want them to get synchronized (i.e., deleted in OE after the
NNTP server deleted them).


Again, I have my synchronization settings set to "No synchronization." And I
remember my headers used to stay indefinitely. Once a header was downloaded,
it would just stay in the folder. If I hadn't gotten the body of a message,
and it scrolled off the server, then, yeah, it was too late (and when I
tried to get that expired text, OE would show the header in strikethrough
text; but the header would still be there).

So what's the point of having a synchronization setting of "no
synchronization" if OE is going to synchronize anyway? Doesn't make sense.
And, like I said, didn't used to be that way. I remember a point where OE
would keep downloaded headers indefinitely.

Also, what's the point of having a "Delete news messages X days after being
downloaded" if OE is just going to delete them anyway, regardless of the
setting. Again, doesn't make sense.


The "synchronization" you mention only relates to reading posts while OE
is offline. It determines if OE is going to retrieve nothing new, just
headers for new posts, or the headers and bodies of new posts. You can
then put OE offline to read them (or read them while you are
disconnected from the network). That is NOT the synchronization that I
spoke of which is OE keeping in sync with what posts are currently
available on the server.

If OE gets out of sync, you will see articles listed in OE but when you
try to read them you get "message no longer available on server" error.
That is because the server expired the article and removed it. There is
an overview headers database that gets updated at intervals, like maybe
just once per day, but the article expire during the day. That means
the overview database and the article database can get out of sync. You
end up with "bad article number" errors when your newsreader tries
retrieve an article that was found in the overview database (when you
retrieved just headers) but the article no longer exists in the article
database. When the overview database gets updated then it is in sync
with the article database. That's another type of synchronization
problem. When an article is removed from the server, and after the
overview database gets updated to get in sync with the articles, then OE
uses the overview headers to figure out when an article is no longer
available on the server, and then OE syncs itself. That's the sync that
I was talking about.

The sync you were talking about has nothing to do with staying in sync
with the server. It has to do with reading articles while offline.
"Synchronization" covers many different types of synchronization. Maybe
"cache headers or articles or both for offline reading" would have been
a better description albeit much longer description for the
"Synchronization" option in OE. Many users had or still have to pay by
the minute of connect time on a dial-up connection. They don't want to
waste time wandering around dozens of newsgroups hunting down the
articles they want to read and then retrieving them and then disconnect
to reduce their cost (which is the minutes deducted from their monthly
quota). Instead then have OE retrieve all headers and bodies for all
posts in all the newsgroups they visit (or maybe use rules to find just
particular posts). It often takes less time to do that so less minutes
are deducted from the user's connect time quota.

Regardless of your "synchronization" settings in OE (which have to do
with retrieving the headers and bodies so they are available even when
offline), OE will synchronize what articles it keeps with those that are
still available on the server whenever you connect OE to the server. So
despite you caching a local copy to read off- or online, it will
disappear from OE if it disappears from the server. That's why you need
to move the articles to a different "holding" folder that is not the
newsgroups folder that syncs with the server. You break the sync link
so the article remains in that holding folder.
  #18  
Old January 30th, 2009, 06:57 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,113
Default OE Is Deleting My NG Headers

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

Devil's Advocate: If posts were not removed from OE (in its current design
state) when they were removed from the server and a heavy newsgroup user
never deleted any posts manually, consider how bloated and ripe for
corruption the message store would become over time!


How true. There is still the 2GB maximum file size for the .dbx files
used by OE. That means you cannot store more than 2GB worth of headers
and bodies in a .dbx file for a newsgroup. Exceeding that threshold
results in a corrupted .dbx file. So with NNTP servers with extreme
retention intervals and with a user that downloads all headers and also
all their bodies then it becomes more likely the 2GB threshold gets
exceeded.

See Microsoft's KB article 903095.
  #19  
Old January 30th, 2009, 10:37 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
Neil[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 104
Default OE Is Deleting My NG Headers


"Ron Sommer" wrote in message
...


"Neil" wrote in message
...

"Ron Sommer" wrote in message
...


"Neil" wrote in message
...

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...
Bruce Hagen wrote:

News servers only keep posts for a period of time. Each server is
different.
MSNews keeps them for 90 days. Some servers keep them longer, some
only for
a few days.

If you want to keep posts indefinitely, copy them to an OE local
folder.

Also, make sure that in View | Current View, you have Show All
Messages and
Group messages By Conversation checked and nothing else.

The reason regarding Bruce's reply is that OE remains in sync with the
NNTP server. If the NNTP server expires and drops a post then so,
too,
will OE. You need to move items out of the newsgroups folder in OE if
you don't want them to get synchronized (i.e., deleted in OE after the
NNTP server deleted them).

Again, I have my synchronization settings set to "No synchronization."
And I remember my headers used to stay indefinitely. Once a header was
downloaded, it would just stay in the folder. If I hadn't gotten the
body of a message, and it scrolled off the server, then, yeah, it was
too late (and when I tried to get that expired text, OE would show the
header in strikethrough text; but the header would still be there).

So what's the point of having a synchronization setting of "no
synchronization" if OE is going to synchronize anyway? Doesn't make
sense. And, like I said, didn't used to be that way. I remember a point
where OE would keep downloaded headers indefinitely.

Also, what's the point of having a "Delete news messages X days after
being downloaded" if OE is just going to delete them anyway, regardless
of the setting. Again, doesn't make sense.


A newsgroup is synchronized when you view the newsgroup if you are
online.
Old messages will be removed when they expire from the server.
The synchronization settings apply to downloading of messages, not to
the removal of old messages.
If you do not want messages from a particular folder or newsgroup to be
downloaded, click Don't Synchronize.


So what you're saying is that if I click "Don't Synchronize," then
messages from that particular newsgroup will not be downloaded. Is that
what you're saying? Because that appears to be what you're saying. Yet I
have "Don't Synchronize" set for ALL my newsgroups. Yet I don't seem to
have any problem downloading messages.

So, what am I not seeing here?



The only way to keep old messages is to move them to a user created
folder.




"If you do not want messages from a particular folder or newsgroup to be
downloaded, click Don't Synchronize." comes from OE help.


Doesn't mean it's correct.

Tools, Accounts, newsgroup server settings has Include this account when
sending and receiving.


I have that box UNCHECKED for the server I use to access my newsgroups. When
I press F5 (Send and Receive All), it DOES NOT get messages for the
newsgroup, because that's unchecked. But it does get new headers when I
click on the newsgroup, or when I do "Get Next Headers."

All newsgroups under that server will be affected by that setting.


OK. So I'm not using that setting. The box is unchecked. And I have "Don't
Synchronize" selected for all newsgroups. Yet I still get messages and
headers.

Each newsgroup has synchronization settings. Those settings apply when OE
sends and receives.


OK. Since I'm not using Send and Receive for newsgroups, it doesn't seem to
apply here.


When you view a newsgroup and you are online, that newsgroup will be
synchronized and headers, new messages only, or all messages will be
downloaded.


Again, I have "Don't Synchronize" selected. So mine shouldn't be
synchronized.


By being online and entering the newsgroup, you are telling OE to
synchronize.


Even though "Don't Synchronize" is selected??? That doesn't make any sense.


You can't get new messages or headers without synchronizing.


And yet I do! Imagine that! I get new headers when I go to the newsgroup,
and I get new messages when I click on the headers. And yet I don't use
synchronization. So I guess you CAN get new messages or headers without
synchronizing. Imagine that!


--
Ronald Sommer




  #20  
Old January 30th, 2009, 10:39 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
Neil[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 104
Default OE Is Deleting My NG Headers


"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...
Actually...

I think Microsoft was right on this one.

Put the newsgroup messages you want to save in a/several folder/s you have
designed for that purpose.

Keep Outlook Express...

Lean & Mean.


So Microsoft is right to FORCE me to keep Outlook Express Lean & Mean and
not give me a choice? They're right to force me to have to move every
message I want to save into new folders or have them be deleted against my
will? They're right to delete things from my hard drive even when I tell
them not to?

You're an idiot. I'm sorry, but you are.






DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor

"Neil" wrote in message
...

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...


Actually...

I think Microsoft was right on this one.

Newsgroup messages SHOULD be moved to a user-designed folder if he wants
them to be saved.


baldersnip



 




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