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support scenario for vista and office 2007



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 31st, 2006, 03:31 AM posted to microsoft.public.office.misc
John Jay Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default support scenario for vista and office 2007

it will not ditch it beacause its too late however i see 2 things happening:
1) In a service pack they will introduce the ability to go back to the older
gui
2) They will add the ability to customize the ribbon.

If I can customize all the elements (icons and sizes) it could be usable.

People will request it.. no demand this from microsoft and even though
we all know how much attention ms gives to the users.. they will be forced
to impliment these 2.



"Patrick Schmid" wrote in message
...
Normally I am very polite. I am blunt here for a reason & on

purpose... to
get the message across
and make it clear that office2007 gui is horrible... and it needs a
remake
from scratch.

You are addressing the wrong audience. You are only talking with peers,
namely users like you. Microsoft doesn't check these newsgroups nor does
anyone of us work for Microsoft. The only people replying to your posts
are peers volunteering their time.
It would be nice and appropriate if you treated us with some respect and
post in a positive manner, as we are then more inclined to have a
discussion with you about this topic.
Just to be clear though: Microsoft won't ditch the ribbon for Office 2007
and most of what you see is going to stay the way it is or has been
announced right now.

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net



  #12  
Old August 31st, 2006, 05:51 AM posted to microsoft.public.office.misc
Beth Melton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 832
Default support scenario for vista and office 2007

I doubt they'll ever go back to the old UI - the old command bars
don't offer the same capabilities as the ribbon. As much as I didn't
like it at first there are some pretty cool new features and actually,
the more I use it the more it grows on me. I think I'm diggin' the
galleries and live preview the most. I've never been much for
eye-candy but the way the galleries change, such as table styles,
shape styles, QuickParts (AutoText), with the document theme makes it
simple to insert new elements that are already formatted and live
preview makes it easy to select a format. Previously I had a macro
that I would use to type some text and then the macro would create a
new document with the text in all of the fonts. Seriously!

Personally, I tend to leave the ribbon minimized and have added all of
the commands/groups I use the most to the QAT. Funny how it bears an
odd resemblance to my toolbar in the previous versions. ;-) And I've
started adding/removing various commands to the QAT depending on what
type of work I'm doing since it's as easy as a right-clicking the
command you want to add or remove.

I have my fingers crossed that they will include the ability to easily
customize the ribbon as a standard component - I'd even be happy if
they created with an add-in. I do know they've heard feedback on this
aspect many, many times so we can only wait and see.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Office 2007 Preview Site:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/default.mspx
Office 2007 Community Articles/Tutorials:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/prev...e_archive.mspx

TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"John Jay Smith" - wrote in message
...
it will not ditch it beacause its too late however i see 2 things
happening:
1) In a service pack they will introduce the ability to go back to
the older gui
2) They will add the ability to customize the ribbon.

If I can customize all the elements (icons and sizes) it could be
usable.

People will request it.. no demand this from microsoft and even
though
we all know how much attention ms gives to the users.. they will be
forced
to impliment these 2.



"Patrick Schmid" wrote in message
...
Normally I am very polite. I am blunt here for a reason & on

purpose... to
get the message across
and make it clear that office2007 gui is horrible... and it needs
a remake
from scratch.

You are addressing the wrong audience. You are only talking with
peers, namely users like you. Microsoft doesn't check these
newsgroups nor does anyone of us work for Microsoft. The only
people replying to your posts are peers volunteering their time.
It would be nice and appropriate if you treated us with some
respect and post in a positive manner, as we are then more inclined
to have a discussion with you about this topic.
Just to be clear though: Microsoft won't ditch the ribbon for
Office 2007 and most of what you see is going to stay the way it is
or has been announced right now.

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net





  #13  
Old August 31st, 2006, 03:05 PM posted to microsoft.public.office.misc
John Jay Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default support scenario for vista and office 2007

someone here is creating an add in for the customization of the ribbon.


"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
I doubt they'll ever go back to the old UI - the old command bars don't
offer the same capabilities as the ribbon. As much as I didn't like it at
first there are some pretty cool new features and actually, the more I use
it the more it grows on me. I think I'm diggin' the galleries and live
preview the most. I've never been much for eye-candy but the way the
galleries change, such as table styles, shape styles, QuickParts
(AutoText), with the document theme makes it simple to insert new elements
that are already formatted and live preview makes it easy to select a
format. Previously I had a macro that I would use to type some text and
then the macro would create a new document with the text in all of the
fonts. Seriously!

Personally, I tend to leave the ribbon minimized and have added all of the
commands/groups I use the most to the QAT. Funny how it bears an odd
resemblance to my toolbar in the previous versions. ;-) And I've started
adding/removing various commands to the QAT depending on what type of work
I'm doing since it's as easy as a right-clicking the command you want to
add or remove.

I have my fingers crossed that they will include the ability to easily
customize the ribbon as a standard component - I'd even be happy if they
created with an add-in. I do know they've heard feedback on this aspect
many, many times so we can only wait and see.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Office 2007 Preview Site:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/default.mspx
Office 2007 Community Articles/Tutorials:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/prev...e_archive.mspx

TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"John Jay Smith" - wrote in message
...
it will not ditch it beacause its too late however i see 2 things
happening:
1) In a service pack they will introduce the ability to go back to the
older gui
2) They will add the ability to customize the ribbon.

If I can customize all the elements (icons and sizes) it could be usable.

People will request it.. no demand this from microsoft and even though
we all know how much attention ms gives to the users.. they will be
forced
to impliment these 2.



"Patrick Schmid" wrote in message
...
Normally I am very polite. I am blunt here for a reason & on
purpose... to
get the message across
and make it clear that office2007 gui is horrible... and it needs a
remake
from scratch.
You are addressing the wrong audience. You are only talking with peers,
namely users like you. Microsoft doesn't check these newsgroups nor does
anyone of us work for Microsoft. The only people replying to your posts
are peers volunteering their time.
It would be nice and appropriate if you treated us with some respect and
post in a positive manner, as we are then more inclined to have a
discussion with you about this topic.
Just to be clear though: Microsoft won't ditch the ribbon for Office
2007 and most of what you see is going to stay the way it is or has been
announced right now.

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net







  #14  
Old August 31st, 2006, 04:40 PM posted to microsoft.public.office.misc
Beth Melton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 832
Default support scenario for vista and office 2007

I know Patrick Schmidt has created such an add-in but my viewpoint is
more for the user perspective rather than my own. Sure I know about
it, those who follow the newsgroups know about it, maybe if someone
searches the web they may find out about it, but if it's created by
Microsoft they have the capability to make its availability known
through Help, product support, on microsoft.com, etc.

Also, not that Patrick's add-in isn't good :-), but it should also be
something Microsoft supports. Based on Microsoft's "ratings" 2% of
Office users customize their toolbars. I think that number is a bit
off but even 2% is a LOT of users. Poor Patrick would end up spending
all of his time supporting his add-in. Plus I know he can't say "no"
so I'm sure a good portion of his time would be spent customizing his
add-in for others. Okay, so I may be exaggerating a bit but I think
you get my point.

Plus, if Microsoft does provide this functionality it will be
considered a "win" for user feedback. Microsoft says they are
listening and I want evidence. :-)
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Office 2007 Preview Site:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/default.mspx
Office 2007 Community Articles/Tutorials:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/prev...e_archive.mspx

TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"John Jay Smith" - wrote in message
...
someone here is creating an add in for the customization of the
ribbon.


"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...


I have my fingers crossed that they will include the ability to
easily customize the ribbon as a standard component - I'd even be
happy if they created with an add-in. I do know they've heard
feedback on this aspect many, many times so we can only wait and
see.



  #15  
Old August 31st, 2006, 05:39 PM posted to microsoft.public.office.misc
Patrick Schmid
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,539
Default support scenario for vista and office 2007,

Also, not that Patrick's add-in isn't good :-), but it should also be
something Microsoft supports. Based on Microsoft's "ratings" 2% of
Office users customize their toolbars. I think that number is a bit
off but even 2% is a LOT of users. Poor Patrick would end up spending

Thankfully that math isn't quite right
It actually comes out to a few tens of thousands of users only (still a
lot, but a lot less than the 8 million the 2% of 400 million Office
users would be). The reason for the much lower number is that only those
did any serious customization (more than three buttons). So everyone
else should be fine with just the QAT.
That is of course if you don't believe that Microsoft's numbers in this
case are massively skewed as most people who did customize also probably
turned off the statistical reporting feature...

all of his time supporting his add-in. Plus I know he can't say "no"
so I'm sure a good portion of his time would be spent customizing his
add-in for others. Okay, so I may be exaggerating a bit but I think
you get my point.

Very valid point

You actually forgot two more points:
- the add-in is actually quite difficult and complicated to write. There
are all sorts of things you need to work around as there are
shortcomings, quirks and special behaviors in the new Office ribbon
customization model. For example, simply removing a group from a tab
works in two different ways depending whether the group was made by
Microsoft and is on its original tab, or whether the group was not made
by Microsoft and/or is not on its original tab...
- I am torn between providing an add-in that fixes a clear issue in 2007
for free as I think everyone should have the ability to customize their
2007 UI and getting some return on the serious amount of time invested
into the project.


Plus, if Microsoft does provide this functionality it will be
considered a "win" for user feedback. Microsoft says they are
listening and I want evidence. :-)

Hehehe

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Office 2007 Preview Site:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/default.mspx
Office 2007 Community Articles/Tutorials:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/prev...e_archive.mspx

TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"John Jay Smith" - wrote in message
...
someone here is creating an add in for the customization of the
ribbon.


"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...


I have my fingers crossed that they will include the ability to
easily customize the ribbon as a standard component - I'd even be
happy if they created with an add-in. I do know they've heard
feedback on this aspect many, many times so we can only wait and
see.


  #16  
Old August 31st, 2006, 08:15 PM posted to microsoft.public.office.misc
Beth Melton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 832
Default support scenario for vista and office 2007,

"Patrick Schmid" wrote in message
...
Also, not that Patrick's add-in isn't good :-), but it should also
be
something Microsoft supports. Based on Microsoft's "ratings" 2% of
Office users customize their toolbars. I think that number is a bit
off but even 2% is a LOT of users. Poor Patrick would end up
spending


Thankfully that math isn't quite right


LOL

It actually comes out to a few tens of thousands of users only
(still a lot, but a lot less than the 8 million the 2% of 400
million Office users would be). The reason for the much lower number
is that only those did any serious customization (more than three
buttons). So everyone else should be fine with just the QAT.
That is of course if you don't believe that Microsoft's numbers in
this case are massively skewed as most people who did customize also
probably turned off the statistical reporting feature...


I know I did. It's back on now and I do my best to send as many data
points as I can when it comes to customization and toolbars. In my
Office classes I make sure CEIP is turned on for every workstation so
every customization, every tear-off menu/toolbar is recorded. grin

all of his time supporting his add-in. Plus I know he can't say
"no"
so I'm sure a good portion of his time would be spent customizing
his
add-in for others. Okay, so I may be exaggerating a bit but I think
you get my point.

Very valid point


:-)

You actually forgot two more points:
- the add-in is actually quite difficult and complicated to write.
There are all sorts of things you need to work around as there are
shortcomings, quirks and special behaviors in the new Office ribbon
customization model. For example, simply removing a group from a tab
works in two different ways depending whether the group was made by
Microsoft and is on its original tab, or whether the group was not
made by Microsoft and/or is not on its original tab...
- I am torn between providing an add-in that fixes a clear issue in
2007 for free as I think everyone should have the ability to
customize their 2007 UI and getting some return on the serious
amount of time invested into the project.


These are great points - especially the last one. You have invested a
great deal of time in this project and while helping others is GREAT
thing, but indeed, time is money...

Plus, if Microsoft does provide this functionality it will be
considered a "win" for user feedback. Microsoft says they are
listening and I want evidence. :-)

Hehehe



Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Office 2007 Preview Site:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/default.mspx
Office 2007 Community Articles/Tutorials:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/prev...e_archive.mspx

TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/


  #17  
Old September 1st, 2006, 03:17 AM posted to microsoft.public.office.misc
Patrick Schmid
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,539
Default support scenario for vista and office 2007,

That is of course if you don't believe that Microsoft's numbers in
this case are massively skewed as most people who did customize also
probably turned off the statistical reporting feature...


I know I did. It's back on now and I do my best to send as many data
points as I can when it comes to customization and toolbars. In my
Office classes I make sure CEIP is turned on for every workstation so
every customization, every tear-off menu/toolbar is recorded. grin

I was always very diligent about switching that phone-home feature
off...Until I got the first beta and realized how much an impact it had!
Since then, I make sure as well that CEIP is always turned on. I learnt
my lesson...

- I am torn between providing an add-in that fixes a clear issue in
2007 for free as I think everyone should have the ability to
customize their 2007 UI and getting some return on the serious
amount of time invested into the project.


These are great points - especially the last one. You have invested a
great deal of time in this project and while helping others is GREAT
thing, but indeed, time is money...

Especially if you are living on a graduate student stipend... I think I
have started this thing from scratch three times now. I am just curious
if I'll have to do that again once B2TR is out...

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net

 




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