Multidimensional Forms/Tables

Assume for a minute that advertising such as yours was allowed in news
groups and other public forums where users go for free support. Imagine one
reply after another with nothing more than:

============================================
Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with
this. My fees are very reasonable.

--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
============================================

Can you understand what these NGs might become? There are a lot of contract
programmers out in the world that would be more than happy to get free
advertising by just fishing in the NGs. I know some very knowledgeable
developers that provide free support in these groups who would like free
advertising.

The important thing to note is that 99.9% or more of the contract
programmers don't do this. Why? Because they understand. They don't feel
that they are "special" or "exceptions" to the generally accepted standards.
You, Steve, apparently assume you are one of the 0.1% or less who will not
abide by the generally accepted standards.

Someone already posted a comment on the fact that as people search for
public, free answers, they must at least glance through your ads. You are
wasting lots of peoples' time.

Regarding your question about the % of people who get sufficient solutions
from NG responses, I don't have a clue. Maybe MS has some study information
but I am not aware of it. Not all OPs respond back with "this has solved my
problem". I know that 100% aren't resolved but also know that those posters
looking for additional assistance have lots of other options. They aren't
dumb and don't need to be hit with blatant ads (see above). They can read
through quality responses and decide if they need further assistance. I (and
many others) have been emailed directly and haven't hinted at consulting
services in our posts or signatures.

Please just let the quality of your answers along with your signature (this
doesn't offend me much) be your advertisement.

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--

"John Marshall, MVP" wrote in message
...
"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
I followed the suggestion of a MVP some time ago and try to always make
it clear in my offers that it is fee-based.

The suggestion was not an endorsement of your activities, just that if you
were going to ignore the spirit of these newsgroups, that the users
deserved a warning.

John... Visio MVP

Well I personally feel I have learnt a lot about multi dimensional tables!!

I shall be attempting to fit one into my database immediatley!

There's nothing to "WARN" the users about!!!

Here's the direct quote from your previous response ---
"When you post any of your "call me" messages, you need to indicate that
unlike other offers of help, your help comes at a price."

I have been doing just as you suggested. I said "My fees are very
reasonable" in this thread.

Now that I am not offering to help without disclosing my offer of help is
fee-based, what's the
problem?

And ---

So now you think I am ignoring the spirit of these newsgroups not
"advertising"???

Steve




"John Marshall, MVP" wrote in message
...
"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
I followed the suggestion of a MVP some time ago and try to always make
it clear in my offers that it is fee-based.

The suggestion was not an endorsement of your activities, just that if you
were going to ignore the spirit of these newsgroups, that the users
deserved a warning.

John... Visio MVP

BTW,

Why are you so defensive about what you said in your previos response? This
is at least the third time you are seemingly trying to cover up what you
said.

Steve


"John Marshall, MVP" wrote in message
...
"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
I followed the suggestion of a MVP some time ago and try to always make
it clear in my offers that it is fee-based.

The suggestion was not an endorsement of your activities, just that if you
were going to ignore the spirit of these newsgroups, that the users
deserved a warning.

John... Visio MVP

Why do you continue to misconstrue what I said to be an endorsement of your
activities?

The comment about warning users is the same as the warning label on a pack
of cigarettes. That does not mean that if the warning label is there, that
there are no longer any health hazards to smoking. You take one sentence,
remove it from it''s context and try to use it as though I was giving you
permission to harrass users with "please call me".

John... Visio MVP

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
BTW,

Why are you so defensive about what you said in your previos response?
This is at least the third time you are seemingly trying to cover up what
you said.

Steve


"John Marshall, MVP" wrote in message
...
"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
I followed the suggestion of a MVP some time ago and try to always make
it clear in my offers that it is fee-based.

The suggestion was not an endorsement of your activities, just that if
you were going to ignore the spirit of these newsgroups, that the users
deserved a warning.

John... Visio MVP

Previously you criticized my offers of help because I did not explicitly
state they were fee-based. Now that I clearly state my offer is fee based.
you say that they are harassing users.

Why don't you explain how a fee-based offer of help "harasses" users.

Steve


"John Marshall, MVP" wrote in message
...
Why do you continue to misconstrue what I said to be an endorsement of
your activities?

The comment about warning users is the same as the warning label on a pack
of cigarettes. That does not mean that if the warning label is there, that
there are no longer any health hazards to smoking. You take one sentence,
remove it from it''s context and try to use it as though I was giving you
permission to harrass users with "please call me".

John... Visio MVP

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
BTW,

Why are you so defensive about what you said in your previos response?
This is at least the third time you are seemingly trying to cover up what
you said.

Steve


"John Marshall, MVP" wrote in message
...
"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
I followed the suggestion of a MVP some time ago and try to always make
it clear in my offers that it is fee-based.

The suggestion was not an endorsement of your activities, just that if
you were going to ignore the spirit of these newsgroups, that the users
deserved a warning.

John... Visio MVP

Steve,
Why do you focus on a small, out of context statement made by John when you
have yet to justify any of your advertising postings in any public news
group anywhere?

There is a reason why advertising is not deemed acceptable in public news
groups. This reason has been explained to you over and over and over and
over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and
over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and
over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over
over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and
over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and
over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and
over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and
over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over
over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and
over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and
over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and
over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and
over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over
over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and
over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and
over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and
over and over and over...

Yet, you continue to think you should be able to ignore this simple piece of
netiquette.

I personally would not mind if a thread went on for "many days" and maybe
20+ posts and the OP just couldn't "get it" then to offer your "for charge"
services as long as you made it clear there would be a fee. There are OPs
that would benefit from this. However, I personally don't set the standards
of netiquette. I would not criticize you for offering fee-based services if
free, public resources were futile. Please don't take my statements out of
context or suggest that I said you could advertise. This is my opinion only.
I will sometimes ask an OP to send me a file when public exchanges do not
work. I don't ask for money when doing this (and I don't promise to find a
resolution).

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
Previously you criticized my offers of help because I did not explicitly
state they were fee-based. Now that I clearly state my offer is fee based.
you say that they are harassing users.

Why don't you explain how a fee-based offer of help "harasses" users.

Steve


"John Marshall, MVP" wrote in message
...
Why do you continue to misconstrue what I said to be an endorsement of
your activities?

The comment about warning users is the same as the warning label on a
pack of cigarettes. That does not mean that if the warning label is
there, that there are no longer any health hazards to smoking. You take
one sentence, remove it from it''s context and try to use it as though I
was giving you permission to harrass users with "please call me".

John... Visio MVP

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
BTW,

Why are you so defensive about what you said in your previos response?
This is at least the third time you are seemingly trying to cover up
what you said.

Steve


"John Marshall, MVP" wrote in message
...
"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
I followed the suggestion of a MVP some time ago and try to always
make it clear in my offers that it is fee-based.

The suggestion was not an endorsement of your activities, just that if
you were going to ignore the spirit of these newsgroups, that the users
deserved a warning.

John... Visio MVP

1. "Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help
with this. My fees are very reasonable" IS NOT advertising!

2. 11 requests for fee based help since I posted #1 to Sharan in this
thread on 10/7

3. 1000 completed requests for fee based help in the last four years

4. I judiciously only make an offer of fee-based help where it appears
highly unlikely that a poster will get a solution to his post or where it
appears highly unlikely that the poster will be able to get a solution to
his post on his own.

5. Ten fold responses of free advice/support

6. 2 & 3 are clearly in the spirit of the newsgroups to provide a resource
for Access users to find solutions to their problems

If it will ease your mind, I will put in the subject "Offer of fee-based
help"

Steve

"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
Steve,
Why do you focus on a small, out of context statement made by John when
you have yet to justify any of your advertising postings in any public
news group anywhere?

There is a reason why advertising is not deemed acceptable in public news
groups. This reason has been explained to you over and over and over and
over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and
over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and
over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over
over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over
and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over
and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over
and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over
and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and
over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and
over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and
over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and
over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over
over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over
and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over
and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over
and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over
and over and over and over and over...

Yet, you continue to think you should be able to ignore this simple piece
of netiquette.

I personally would not mind if a thread went on for "many days" and maybe
20+ posts and the OP just couldn't "get it" then to offer your "for
charge" services as long as you made it clear there would be a fee. There
are OPs that would benefit from this. However, I personally don't set the
standards of netiquette. I would not criticize you for offering fee-based
services if free, public resources were futile. Please don't take my
statements out of context or suggest that I said you could advertise. This
is my opinion only. I will sometimes ask an OP to send me a file when
public exchanges do not work. I don't ask for money when doing this (and I
don't promise to find a resolution).

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
Previously you criticized my offers of help because I did not explicitly
state they were fee-based. Now that I clearly state my offer is fee
based. you say that they are harassing users.

Why don't you explain how a fee-based offer of help "harasses" users.

Steve


"John Marshall, MVP" wrote in message
...
Why do you continue to misconstrue what I said to be an endorsement of
your activities?

The comment about warning users is the same as the warning label on a
pack of cigarettes. That does not mean that if the warning label is
there, that there are no longer any health hazards to smoking. You take
one sentence, remove it from it''s context and try to use it as though I
was giving you permission to harrass users with "please call me".

John... Visio MVP

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
BTW,

Why are you so defensive about what you said in your previos response?
This is at least the third time you are seemingly trying to cover up
what you said.

Steve


"John Marshall, MVP" wrote in message
...
"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
I followed the suggestion of a MVP some time ago and try to always
make it clear in my offers that it is fee-based.

The suggestion was not an endorsement of your activities, just that if
you were going to ignore the spirit of these newsgroups, that the
users deserved a warning.

John... Visio MVP

Marsh,

You still haven't given me an answer.

Steve


"Marshall Barton" wrote in message
...
David, there is absolutely no need for you to defend
yourself from such an obviously spurious attack. Your
credibility is every bit as good as anyone's and better than
that of someone with an established pattern of irritating
behavior.
--
Marsh


David Mueller wrote:
I can't believe you tried to drop that smelly old argumentum ad hominem on
this group!

If anyone lacks credibility it is you since I have three contributory
posts
on this forum: two dated 7/29/05; one dated 7/15/05; in addition to a
question for help.

Although it has nothing to do with the issue at hand - David Mueller is my
real name.


"PC Datasheet" wrote:
You have no credibility whoever you are!

You have not posted or responded in the Access newsgroups in the past
three
years and you hide behind discussions.microsoft.com trying to avoid
being
traced.

Steve

1. Your intelligence level is peeking out
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=advertise
2.-6. Your attempt to redefine netiquette.

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--
Microsoft Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote:

1. "Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help
with this. My fees are very reasonable" IS NOT advertising!

2. 11 requests for fee based help since I posted #1 to Sharan in this
thread on 10/7

3. 1000 completed requests for fee based help in the last four years

4. I judiciously only make an offer of fee-based help where it appears
highly unlikely that a poster will get a solution to his post or where it
appears highly unlikely that the poster will be able to get a solution to
his post on his own.

5. Ten fold responses of free advice/support

6. 2 & 3 are clearly in the spirit of the newsgroups to provide a resource
for Access users to find solutions to their problems

If it will ease your mind, I will put in the subject "Offer of fee-based
help"

Steve